1 00:00:04,249 --> 00:00:01,880 somewhere in the skies is brought to you 2 00:00:06,470 --> 00:00:04,259 by hello fresh delicious healthy food 3 00:00:07,039 --> 00:00:06,480 delivered to your door and made in your 4 00:00:08,330 --> 00:00:07,049 kitchen 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:08,340 next time you're listening to the show 6 00:00:13,009 --> 00:00:10,290 while preparing your hello fresh meal 7 00:00:15,709 --> 00:00:13,019 visit hello fresh CA and use the promo 8 00:00:16,609 --> 00:00:15,719 code somewhere 54 50 percent off your 9 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:16,619 first box 10 00:00:23,870 --> 00:00:18,570 courtesy of your friends at the antico 11 00:00:27,980 --> 00:00:23,880 podcast network and hello fresh Alphabet 12 00:00:30,169 --> 00:00:27,990 City 1998 Aaron Kosminski a prominent 13 00:00:32,659 --> 00:00:30,179 New York City hairstylist has a date 14 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:32,669 with destiny when he meets Marie one 15 00:00:37,220 --> 00:00:34,770 autumn night he feels a connection he's 16 00:00:39,110 --> 00:00:37,230 never felt before but a series of grisly 17 00:00:41,690 --> 00:00:39,120 murders around the neighborhood propel 18 00:00:44,180 --> 00:00:41,700 Aaron Emery into a tense faceoff and a 19 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:44,190 world of dark and grisly consequences 20 00:00:49,850 --> 00:00:47,610 east in red is a new horror play by Ryan 21 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:49,860 Sprague directed by Brian Williams and 22 00:00:55,279 --> 00:00:52,410 the dark house theater running October 23 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:55,289 5th 6th and 7th at the undersand Marx 24 00:01:00,049 --> 00:00:57,570 Theatre in New York City get your 25 00:01:02,599 --> 00:01:00,059 tickets now at dark house theater comm 26 00:01:07,550 --> 00:01:02,609 and ring in the Halloween season with a 27 00:01:08,870 --> 00:01:07,560 bloody good time hey guys Ryan sprek 28 00:01:10,789 --> 00:01:08,880 here before we get to this week's 29 00:01:13,399 --> 00:01:10,799 episode I have to take a 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00:01:50,520 contributions for $5.00 a month you get 45 00:01:56,300 --> 00:01:53,220 tons of bonus material made exclusively 46 00:01:58,730 --> 00:01:56,310 for you that's pretty much one Starbucks 47 00:02:01,639 --> 00:01:58,740 drink that refills itself every week and 48 00:02:03,980 --> 00:02:01,649 lasts you the entire month if that made 49 00:02:05,389 --> 00:02:03,990 any sense you get the point if you're 50 00:02:07,490 --> 00:02:05,399 interested in learning more about the 51 00:02:10,740 --> 00:02:07,500 patreon campaign or to become a patron 52 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:10,750 visit patreon.com backslash somewhere 53 00:02:26,310 --> 00:02:14,110 skies that's patreon.com slash somewhere 54 00:02:30,750 --> 00:02:26,320 skies and now onto this week's show this 55 00:02:46,550 --> 00:02:30,760 is somewhere in the skies the Branzburg 56 00:02:50,580 --> 00:02:49,530 the reason Americans are so interested 57 00:02:54,930 --> 00:02:50,590 in conspiracy theories 58 00:02:57,090 --> 00:02:54,940 it's that conspiracies happen I started 59 00:03:00,750 --> 00:02:57,100 hearing all these stories about the 60 00:03:04,230 --> 00:03:00,760 Montauk Project they were conducting 61 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:04,240 mind-control experiments here somebody 62 00:03:10,530 --> 00:03:07,450 is hiding something there we did 63 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:10,540 electrical resistivity imaging after all 64 00:03:24,210 --> 00:03:21,870 Montauk is a remote us town located on 65 00:03:26,250 --> 00:03:24,220 the very eastern tip of Long Island New 66 00:03:28,530 --> 00:03:26,260 York high on a hill above the rocky 67 00:03:31,650 --> 00:03:28,540 waters of the Atlantic Ocean looms a 68 00:03:33,870 --> 00:03:31,660 giant rusted radar tower it's a ghost 69 00:03:35,910 --> 00:03:33,880 relic of the past that local fishermen 70 00:03:38,460 --> 00:03:35,920 used as a marker to help guide their 71 00:03:41,220 --> 00:03:38,470 ships safely to shore the old military 72 00:03:44,340 --> 00:03:41,230 tower is also a landmark for what once 73 00:03:46,350 --> 00:03:44,350 was camp hero Air Force Base the US 74 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:46,360 government claims that Camp ural once 75 00:03:51,060 --> 00:03:48,970 protected Americans but for decades 76 00:03:52,950 --> 00:03:51,070 endless rumors maintain that within the 77 00:03:55,890 --> 00:03:52,960 camp's concrete fortresses lie the 78 00:03:58,230 --> 00:03:55,900 remains of a deep government conspiracy 79 00:04:00,240 --> 00:03:58,240 after World War two it is known that the 80 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:00,250 United States government engaged in a 81 00:04:05,660 --> 00:04:02,890 pattern of covert behavior in such 82 00:04:09,090 --> 00:04:05,670 programs as the Tuskegee experiments an 83 00:04:11,430 --> 00:04:09,100 MKULTRA could Montauk scamp hero with 84 00:04:14,490 --> 00:04:11,440 its rumors of mind-control experiments 85 00:04:17,220 --> 00:04:14,500 acid tests child abduction time travel 86 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:17,230 and even extraterrestrial contact be 87 00:04:23,220 --> 00:04:20,170 another top secret example and how deep 88 00:04:24,780 --> 00:04:23,230 did those experiments truly go this is 89 00:04:27,420 --> 00:04:24,790 what we'll be discussing with today's 90 00:04:29,250 --> 00:04:27,430 guests Chris Garrett oh no Chris is the 91 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:29,260 owner and president of white phosphorus 92 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:32,410 pictures in 2006 he set out to make them 93 00:04:36,450 --> 00:04:34,450 Montauk chronicles focusing on the 94 00:04:39,140 --> 00:04:36,460 alleged secret experiments that are said 95 00:04:41,910 --> 00:04:39,150 to have been conducted between 1971 in 96 00:04:43,890 --> 00:04:41,920 1983 the final version of Montauk 97 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:43,900 chronicles was completed in the winter 98 00:04:50,130 --> 00:04:47,050 of 2014 in a premiered at the philip k 99 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:50,140 dick festival in new york city in 2015 100 00:04:54,570 --> 00:04:52,810 whereat won best documentary from there 101 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:54,580 Chris became an executive producer 102 00:04:59,880 --> 00:04:57,730 director of recreations and co-host of 103 00:05:01,650 --> 00:04:59,890 the new History Channel show the dark 104 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:01,660 files picking up where Montauk 105 00:05:06,750 --> 00:05:04,210 chronicles left off the dark files is 106 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:06,760 the most thorough investigation of the 107 00:05:11,340 --> 00:05:09,010 Montauk Project to date a chronicles 108 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:11,350 former CIA operative barry eisler 109 00:05:16,190 --> 00:05:13,330 award-winning journalist steve-o and 110 00:05:18,990 --> 00:05:16,200 chris's exploration into the mythologies 111 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:19,000 conspiracies and accusations that 112 00:05:23,820 --> 00:05:21,910 surround cam Peru so without further ado 113 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:23,830 here's my conversation with Chris 114 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:26,050 Garrett on Oh Chris thank you so much 115 00:05:29,550 --> 00:05:27,490 for joining me today on somewhere 116 00:05:33,150 --> 00:05:29,560 the skies oh thank you for having me 117 00:05:35,969 --> 00:05:33,160 much appreciated Corso your project the 118 00:05:37,950 --> 00:05:35,979 dark files recently aired on the History 119 00:05:40,170 --> 00:05:37,960 Channel so I wanted to catch up with you 120 00:05:42,749 --> 00:05:40,180 today and see how it's going man how the 121 00:05:45,540 --> 00:05:42,759 reception has been what the project was 122 00:05:48,570 --> 00:05:45,550 all about how you got started on this 123 00:05:51,350 --> 00:05:48,580 entire Montauk Project mystery it's 124 00:05:53,460 --> 00:05:51,360 fascinating it's disturbing it's 125 00:05:56,159 --> 00:05:53,470 extremely mysterious and everything in 126 00:05:57,779 --> 00:05:56,169 between so can you sort of I guess to 127 00:05:59,969 --> 00:05:57,789 start us off can you give us a little 128 00:06:01,890 --> 00:05:59,979 background on how your interest in the 129 00:06:05,339 --> 00:06:01,900 Montauk Project all started when you 130 00:06:08,670 --> 00:06:05,349 were a kid sure well I I grew up I was 131 00:06:09,809 --> 00:06:08,680 born in Huntington Village Long Island 132 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:09,819 which is on the North Shore of Long 133 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:12,849 Island I grew up in North Port and on 134 00:06:17,490 --> 00:06:14,650 the North Shore of Long Island in that 135 00:06:19,559 --> 00:06:17,500 area are very small towns small town 136 00:06:22,020 --> 00:06:19,569 America Harbor towns and so there's 137 00:06:24,809 --> 00:06:22,030 woods and beaches but in the summer time 138 00:06:26,730 --> 00:06:24,819 mainly we would go camp out and drive 139 00:06:29,219 --> 00:06:26,740 out to Montauk which is the furthest 140 00:06:31,290 --> 00:06:29,229 eastern tip of Long Island New York and 141 00:06:32,399 --> 00:06:31,300 it's kind of remote it's set aside from 142 00:06:34,290 --> 00:06:32,409 everything in the summertime it's 143 00:06:37,620 --> 00:06:34,300 thriving because there are these great 144 00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:37,630 camping grounds and beaches and you know 145 00:06:41,670 --> 00:06:40,240 there's surfing and and restaurants and 146 00:06:43,830 --> 00:06:41,680 all sorts of fun stuff to do in this 147 00:06:45,899 --> 00:06:43,840 summer but in the winter it's desolate 148 00:06:47,399 --> 00:06:45,909 and I remember I was a very little kid 149 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:47,409 and I we did talk about this on the show 150 00:06:52,110 --> 00:06:50,110 on the dark files is that um I was 151 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:52,120 walking down the beach with my uncle and 152 00:06:56,999 --> 00:06:54,610 my dad and we were collecting shells and 153 00:07:00,809 --> 00:06:57,009 I walked a little bit further ahead of 154 00:07:02,730 --> 00:07:00,819 them and I started to see what to me I 155 00:07:04,740 --> 00:07:02,740 only saw them in cartoons at the time I 156 00:07:07,230 --> 00:07:04,750 think I'm and that was the only familiar 157 00:07:09,510 --> 00:07:07,240 image reference image that I had but 158 00:07:12,029 --> 00:07:09,520 they were World War two archaic World 159 00:07:13,890 --> 00:07:12,039 War two mines they were cylinders with 160 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:13,900 the spike sticking out of them I suspect 161 00:07:17,820 --> 00:07:15,490 they were inactive but they were there 162 00:07:19,230 --> 00:07:17,830 and I never forgot that and so I walked 163 00:07:21,659 --> 00:07:19,240 a little close to them and there was a 164 00:07:22,980 --> 00:07:21,669 military guard that came out told us all 165 00:07:25,020 --> 00:07:22,990 we had to go the other way we weren't 166 00:07:26,999 --> 00:07:25,030 allowed to go any further so I found 167 00:07:28,170 --> 00:07:27,009 myself questioning exactly what was the 168 00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:28,180 air because I just thought we were 169 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:30,430 Montauk was the beach and the camping 170 00:07:34,260 --> 00:07:32,530 grounds and you know it was a place to 171 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:34,270 hang out in the summertime the foliage 172 00:07:37,469 --> 00:07:36,130 is so thick in the summer is that when 173 00:07:39,930 --> 00:07:37,479 you're driving around you really have to 174 00:07:41,070 --> 00:07:39,940 have eyes for it to see that giant sage 175 00:07:42,869 --> 00:07:41,080 radar tower 176 00:07:44,850 --> 00:07:42,879 distance it's kind of harder to see in 177 00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:44,860 the summer that's why I never really 178 00:07:49,740 --> 00:07:46,780 noticed it until much later and so it 179 00:07:51,749 --> 00:07:49,750 was later that I caught Kristin nickels 180 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:51,759 book I think I was in either high school 181 00:07:56,249 --> 00:07:55,090 or I was in film school and a friend who 182 00:07:58,529 --> 00:07:56,259 was actually from upstate New York 183 00:08:02,399 --> 00:07:58,539 passed it over to me and I read it and 184 00:08:04,110 --> 00:08:02,409 you know I'm a science-fiction junkie my 185 00:08:05,959 --> 00:08:04,120 whole life so I was familiar with 186 00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:05,969 everything in cinema and literature 187 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:08,590 including Forbidden Planet including all 188 00:08:13,559 --> 00:08:10,810 the old outer limits episodes and in 189 00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:13,569 search of them all itself so I read the 190 00:08:18,779 --> 00:08:16,240 book and I just felt perhaps there was 191 00:08:20,939 --> 00:08:18,789 something there but maybe the publisher 192 00:08:22,980 --> 00:08:20,949 whoever as they tend to do sometimes 193 00:08:24,779 --> 00:08:22,990 encourage dim Bela schmutz and that 194 00:08:26,850 --> 00:08:24,789 perhaps they were cherry-picking from 195 00:08:28,379 --> 00:08:26,860 some of the most popular science fiction 196 00:08:30,390 --> 00:08:28,389 episodes you know I even saw little 197 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:30,400 glimpses of Twilight Zone episodes in 198 00:08:34,050 --> 00:08:32,050 there and late later found out that 199 00:08:37,139 --> 00:08:34,060 Preston Nichols himself has a voracious 200 00:08:39,420 --> 00:08:37,149 appetite for science fiction and horror 201 00:08:41,370 --> 00:08:39,430 it's different so I just didn't really 202 00:08:43,230 --> 00:08:41,380 think much of it and I always had an 203 00:08:44,850 --> 00:08:43,240 obsession with the paranormal and 204 00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:44,860 mysteries of the unknown since I was a 205 00:08:48,750 --> 00:08:47,110 very little kid ah so it was a little 206 00:08:51,389 --> 00:08:48,760 bit later that I finished my first 207 00:08:53,340 --> 00:08:51,399 documentary that was done I found a 208 00:08:55,319 --> 00:08:53,350 distributor and my next one was supposed 209 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:55,329 to be something called monster 210 00:09:00,030 --> 00:08:56,970 chronicles which it was this kind of 211 00:09:02,670 --> 00:09:00,040 cryptozoological anthology which I'm now 212 00:09:05,550 --> 00:09:02,680 making in separate movies starting with 213 00:09:07,410 --> 00:09:05,560 Bigfoot my friend who at the time his 214 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:07,420 name is John David Brody had this 215 00:09:14,430 --> 00:09:11,050 extreme obsession in the conspiratorial 216 00:09:16,439 --> 00:09:14,440 type stories which at the time weren't 217 00:09:18,660 --> 00:09:16,449 very they weren't in vogue this was in 218 00:09:20,819 --> 00:09:18,670 oh four oh five and they were in vogue 219 00:09:23,699 --> 00:09:20,829 in smaller circles but they not to the 220 00:09:25,019 --> 00:09:23,709 magnitude that they are now so he said 221 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:25,029 to me we'll look you're from Long Island 222 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:26,410 why don't you do something on the 223 00:09:32,790 --> 00:09:29,230 Montauk Project and I wasn't interested 224 00:09:34,980 --> 00:09:32,800 in adapting nickles book but what I was 225 00:09:37,590 --> 00:09:34,990 interested in was I I realized at that 226 00:09:39,540 --> 00:09:37,600 moment that these men these elderly men 227 00:09:41,310 --> 00:09:39,550 Preston Nichols and Alfred Bielek we're 228 00:09:43,980 --> 00:09:41,320 telling this story for years by that 229 00:09:46,110 --> 00:09:43,990 point it hasn't really changed much and 230 00:09:49,410 --> 00:09:46,120 these guys didn't get rich off of it so 231 00:09:51,500 --> 00:09:49,420 I I wanted it as a as a character study 232 00:09:54,540 --> 00:09:51,510 I wanted to visit them in their homes 233 00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:54,550 not make them feel inhibited I didn't 234 00:09:57,420 --> 00:09:54,880 want to 235 00:10:00,450 --> 00:09:57,430 a big crew mainly just myself or another 236 00:10:02,340 --> 00:10:00,460 person to lend a helping hand and just 237 00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:02,350 start by talking to them that's all I 238 00:10:07,470 --> 00:10:05,040 wanted to do just turn the camera on and 239 00:10:10,140 --> 00:10:07,480 start talking and have a natural 240 00:10:11,940 --> 00:10:10,150 conversation about this extraordinary 241 00:10:13,890 --> 00:10:11,950 thing that they may or may not have 242 00:10:16,890 --> 00:10:13,900 experienced and we'll start there nuts 243 00:10:20,190 --> 00:10:16,900 where it started in O six there are 244 00:10:21,930 --> 00:10:20,200 groups within the government naval 245 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:21,940 intelligence being one but not the only 246 00:10:27,210 --> 00:10:24,010 one and I want to make it very clear I 247 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:27,220 am not blaming naval intelligence as a 248 00:10:30,510 --> 00:10:29,170 whole I'm not condemning naval 249 00:10:33,090 --> 00:10:30,520 intelligence as a whole there's some 250 00:10:36,030 --> 00:10:33,100 very good people in there but they have 251 00:10:38,910 --> 00:10:36,040 a roll group which are these of Montauk 252 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:38,920 kid types who are going to the dark side 253 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:41,410 and according to the black arts if you 254 00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:42,970 don't think that's real you better do 255 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:46,240 your homework it is very real so 256 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:48,570 basically you know we kind of 257 00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:51,160 springboard with preston nichols the guy 258 00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:53,680 who wrote the you know arguably the 259 00:10:58,830 --> 00:10:55,990 definitive book on Montauk can you tell 260 00:11:02,370 --> 00:10:58,840 us maybe a little about Chris what camp 261 00:11:04,020 --> 00:11:02,380 hero actually is you know backtracking a 262 00:11:06,930 --> 00:11:04,030 little bit in terms of what this base 263 00:11:09,630 --> 00:11:06,940 was used for and then kind of what what 264 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:09,640 preston nichols claims that he was a 265 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:12,970 part of there well the area in camp hero 266 00:11:18,210 --> 00:11:17,050 has a vast history that goes way back so 267 00:11:20,910 --> 00:11:18,220 the Revolutionary War 268 00:11:22,650 --> 00:11:20,920 before that and it's also the same 269 00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:22,660 location that just after the 270 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:24,790 spanish-american war theater Roosevelt 271 00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:26,170 and the Rough Riders were kind of 272 00:11:30,810 --> 00:11:28,420 quarantined out there so there's always 273 00:11:34,350 --> 00:11:30,820 like activity out there later it becomes 274 00:11:37,470 --> 00:11:34,360 a place called for hero and World War 275 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:37,480 two it's turned into the camp hero Air 276 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:40,210 Force Station and so as we know in 277 00:11:46,140 --> 00:11:42,910 history this is the place where before 278 00:11:48,780 --> 00:11:46,150 satellite technology was established the 279 00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:48,790 sage radar tower semi-automatic ground 280 00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:50,800 environment radar tower that big iconic 281 00:11:56,730 --> 00:11:53,800 radar tower was built and designed and 282 00:11:58,980 --> 00:11:56,740 used for a variety of purposes detecting 283 00:12:02,160 --> 00:11:58,990 enemy ships they claim that their 284 00:12:03,540 --> 00:12:02,170 submarine bases underneath and I would 285 00:12:06,329 --> 00:12:03,550 of course believe it because it's just 286 00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:06,339 this giant stronghold it's on it it's on 287 00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:08,830 a cliff facing the Atlantic Ocean 288 00:12:12,930 --> 00:12:10,959 very furthest eastern tip of Long Island 289 00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:12,940 but what are the weird stuff starts 290 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:16,380 coming in is at the end of World War two 291 00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:18,730 Nuremberg trials you know there were a 292 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:21,760 lot of people who were spared as spoils 293 00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:23,350 of war in regard to the United States 294 00:12:30,449 --> 00:12:27,279 absorbing these Nazi scientists into our 295 00:12:32,370 --> 00:12:30,459 into our military into our scientific 296 00:12:33,810 --> 00:12:32,380 and military development they were 297 00:12:36,210 --> 00:12:33,820 developing rockets and all sorts of 298 00:12:38,759 --> 00:12:36,220 crazy things for the Nazis so instead of 299 00:12:41,130 --> 00:12:38,769 hanging them we brought them over and 300 00:12:42,210 --> 00:12:41,140 this was called Operation Paperclip or 301 00:12:44,730 --> 00:12:42,220 Project Paperclip 302 00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:44,740 I never before seen report discloses a 303 00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:47,200 dark chapter in our nation's history the 304 00:12:52,380 --> 00:12:49,600 US government hunted Nazis after the war 305 00:12:54,990 --> 00:12:52,390 but in some cases protected them on 306 00:12:57,090 --> 00:12:55,000 American soil the Justice Department had 307 00:12:59,490 --> 00:12:57,100 resisted releasing this report for four 308 00:13:02,310 --> 00:12:59,500 years but the New York Times got a hold 309 00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:02,320 of it it includes how some former Nazis 310 00:13:07,530 --> 00:13:04,720 were knowingly admitted into the u.s. 311 00:13:09,930 --> 00:13:07,540 after the war the extent of which was 312 00:13:12,990 --> 00:13:09,940 never fully understood in the past for 313 00:13:16,170 --> 00:13:13,000 example one Nazi rocket scientist was 314 00:13:18,930 --> 00:13:16,180 later honored by NASA and it was those 315 00:13:21,540 --> 00:13:18,940 paperclip scientists that preston 316 00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:21,550 nichols and alfred Bielek claimed began 317 00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:24,160 the Montauk Project it all started at a 318 00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:26,110 place called Brookhaven National Labs 319 00:13:32,340 --> 00:13:30,160 which is a little further west of camp 320 00:13:35,069 --> 00:13:32,350 hero Air Force Station and according to 321 00:13:38,579 --> 00:13:35,079 Nichols he was eventually recruited by 322 00:13:41,819 --> 00:13:38,589 the the the Brookhaven National Labs 323 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:41,829 because of his expertise and electronics 324 00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:45,130 and other reasons for or esoteric 325 00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:47,110 reasons like hid the fact that he has 326 00:13:51,329 --> 00:13:49,360 psychic abilities the fact that he has 327 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:51,339 you know this connection with certain 328 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:54,490 energies so he claims he and so he was 329 00:13:58,650 --> 00:13:57,250 recruited by the labs first and then the 330 00:14:01,019 --> 00:13:58,660 Montauk Project came about because 331 00:14:02,370 --> 00:14:01,029 according to Nichols and and Bielek 332 00:14:04,579 --> 00:14:02,380 Congress had a big problem with 333 00:14:07,759 --> 00:14:04,589 eventually because we did kind of 334 00:14:10,019 --> 00:14:07,769 celebrate these Nazi scientists and 335 00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:10,029 libraries named after them I think it in 336 00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:12,910 one one point but so Congress had an 337 00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:14,620 issue with these guys they got kicked 338 00:14:19,079 --> 00:14:16,390 out of Brookhaven National Labs and 339 00:14:21,540 --> 00:14:19,089 according to Nicholls the skits kind of 340 00:14:22,319 --> 00:14:21,550 muddy but he said that they established 341 00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:22,329 the MA 342 00:14:27,689 --> 00:14:24,639 TUC project in a facility deep beneath 343 00:14:29,669 --> 00:14:27,699 the ground at Camp hero I'm not sure 344 00:14:32,429 --> 00:14:29,679 what was embellished and what was it and 345 00:14:34,739 --> 00:14:32,439 I had I've had over a decade now on this 346 00:14:37,169 --> 00:14:34,749 subject matter so you know it begins 347 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:37,179 with this very thin book which was that 348 00:14:41,699 --> 00:14:39,610 first book that Nichols published with a 349 00:14:45,179 --> 00:14:41,709 very small bit of information to go on 350 00:14:47,429 --> 00:14:45,189 I've since I feel between the dark files 351 00:14:48,989 --> 00:14:47,439 between speaking to these gentlemen for 352 00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:48,999 Montag Chronicles and in my own personal 353 00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:51,279 research furthering you know everyday 354 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:52,959 looking for things and it's talking to 355 00:14:56,879 --> 00:14:54,910 people that I did an interview for those 356 00:14:58,619 --> 00:14:56,889 those projects I feel like I found 357 00:15:01,289 --> 00:14:58,629 significant evidence that corroborates 358 00:15:02,789 --> 00:15:01,299 at least some of his story the more 359 00:15:05,009 --> 00:15:02,799 believable stuff though and I'm not 360 00:15:06,979 --> 00:15:05,019 saying I don't believe in time travel or 361 00:15:09,299 --> 00:15:06,989 I don't believe in extraterrestrial 362 00:15:11,489 --> 00:15:09,309 intelligence I'm just not sure all that 363 00:15:15,299 --> 00:15:11,499 happened at camp here oh that's that's 364 00:15:17,249 --> 00:15:15,309 sort of an in short the origins of the 365 00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:17,259 Montauk Project see that's what I find 366 00:15:22,109 --> 00:15:19,110 most fascinating Chris is that you know 367 00:15:24,689 --> 00:15:22,119 beyond the more esoteric elements to 368 00:15:27,179 --> 00:15:24,699 this entire mystery of Montauk there are 369 00:15:29,489 --> 00:15:27,189 these small truths that seem to be 370 00:15:31,889 --> 00:15:29,499 hidden and you have to wonder is this 371 00:15:34,409 --> 00:15:31,899 something that Nichols or be like that 372 00:15:36,989 --> 00:15:34,419 they they're trying to do you know plant 373 00:15:39,809 --> 00:15:36,999 these little truths throughout possible 374 00:15:42,569 --> 00:15:39,819 untruths or you know miss or 375 00:15:44,729 --> 00:15:42,579 disinformation and see who can really 376 00:15:46,979 --> 00:15:44,739 cherry-pick what actually happened the 377 00:15:49,559 --> 00:15:46,989 court of the story and I would have to 378 00:15:52,259 --> 00:15:49,569 say that you sort of did that for the 379 00:15:54,329 --> 00:15:52,269 past decade and I have followed your 380 00:15:55,619 --> 00:15:54,339 your process of Montauk chronicles 381 00:15:57,780 --> 00:15:55,629 almost from the start 382 00:16:00,030 --> 00:15:57,790 I don't remember exactly the moment that 383 00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:00,040 I found your work but I I was one of 384 00:16:04,650 --> 00:16:02,079 those first people who were following 385 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:04,660 you on the journey and I knew that this 386 00:16:08,369 --> 00:16:06,970 was an interesting topic I was living in 387 00:16:10,049 --> 00:16:08,379 New York City at the time so I 388 00:16:13,919 --> 00:16:10,059 definitely had that connection there and 389 00:16:15,989 --> 00:16:13,929 then in 2015 the the the documentary 390 00:16:19,489 --> 00:16:15,999 came out the Montauk chronicles legend 391 00:16:22,990 --> 00:16:19,499 has it that beneath this very tower a 392 00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:23,000 dark force had its eyes 393 00:16:28,749 --> 00:16:26,569 on the children we were told that what 394 00:16:31,569 --> 00:16:28,759 was going on there was for the benefit 395 00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:31,579 of humanity what would you say to the 396 00:16:36,429 --> 00:16:34,220 people who say well all these children 397 00:16:38,530 --> 00:16:36,439 were kidnapped and murdered and you were 398 00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:38,540 a part of it what would you tell them if 399 00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,800 they said well you know they're trying 400 00:16:45,850 --> 00:16:41,360 to say well you were part of this you 401 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:45,860 you you proved it this nothing I could 402 00:16:49,869 --> 00:16:46,730 do about it 403 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:49,879 they wanted a larger number of program 404 00:16:56,590 --> 00:16:53,050 boys to be used for mind control 405 00:16:58,809 --> 00:16:56,600 operations I'll put it this way if 406 00:17:06,010 --> 00:16:58,819 you're sitting there with 20 guns for 407 00:17:08,679 --> 00:17:06,020 you and it was awesome you you did these 408 00:17:10,659 --> 00:17:08,689 reenactments all on your own you created 409 00:17:12,039 --> 00:17:10,669 you know interspersed with the 410 00:17:14,529 --> 00:17:12,049 interviews with Nichols and everyone 411 00:17:17,140 --> 00:17:14,539 else and it came together so well man 412 00:17:19,329 --> 00:17:17,150 and I would love to hear just a taste of 413 00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:19,339 what it what it took for this past 414 00:17:24,159 --> 00:17:21,919 decade and what the process was like in 415 00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:24,169 creating montauk Chronicles before we 416 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:27,199 even get into dark files sure oh thank 417 00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:29,330 you I really appreciate that yeah I love 418 00:17:33,850 --> 00:17:31,280 talking about the process of moviemaking 419 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:33,860 I guess it first starts whether just a 420 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:36,530 love for cinema and that I just a quick 421 00:17:41,289 --> 00:17:38,690 background on me like I grew up as a kid 422 00:17:44,350 --> 00:17:41,299 who's just you know I I was a quiet kid 423 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:44,360 I loved reading a special-effects makeup 424 00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:46,370 I really got into it at a young age so I 425 00:17:50,890 --> 00:17:48,740 started making masks and I was reading 426 00:17:52,690 --> 00:17:50,900 all the you know magazines like Fangoria 427 00:17:54,970 --> 00:17:52,700 instead of fantastique and I got into 428 00:17:57,460 --> 00:17:54,980 special effects and really learned about 429 00:17:59,529 --> 00:17:57,470 the old wizards of cinema going way back 430 00:18:01,480 --> 00:17:59,539 to Millie a sand and Fritz Lang and 431 00:18:04,180 --> 00:18:01,490 stuff like that so to this day those are 432 00:18:06,190 --> 00:18:04,190 my heroes and I made movies as a kid I 433 00:18:08,049 --> 00:18:06,200 would steal my dad's video camera my 434 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:08,059 parents owned a video store so I was 435 00:18:13,539 --> 00:18:11,090 just saturated and and movies all the 436 00:18:14,980 --> 00:18:13,549 time but I just wasn't like always stuck 437 00:18:16,990 --> 00:18:14,990 in front of a TV either like I was 438 00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:17,000 outside a lot so I I guess I had the 439 00:18:20,620 --> 00:18:18,559 best of both worlds cuz I was always 440 00:18:23,890 --> 00:18:20,630 outside and you know experiencing real 441 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:23,900 life so all of that is is a love that 442 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:25,970 has been consistent at a dream of mine 443 00:18:30,610 --> 00:18:27,770 since I was a little kid and now I'm 444 00:18:32,399 --> 00:18:30,620 faced with okay you know you're out of 445 00:18:34,810 --> 00:18:32,409 film school I had a job in the industry 446 00:18:36,620 --> 00:18:34,820 and you realize this cold hard reality 447 00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,630 of moviemaking is 448 00:18:41,330 --> 00:18:38,640 going to be easy you're gonna have to 449 00:18:44,330 --> 00:18:41,340 make major sacrifices and so I made my 450 00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:44,340 first documentary with just me a video 451 00:18:48,170 --> 00:18:46,440 camera a microphone and a dry pot and I 452 00:18:49,580 --> 00:18:48,180 got found a distributor for it got it 453 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:49,590 out there played at festivals it was 454 00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:51,690 about a different subject matter and I 455 00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:53,640 started shooting more and so when it 456 00:18:56,990 --> 00:18:54,960 came down to Montauk I was like man I 457 00:18:59,660 --> 00:18:57,000 would really love to start shooting some 458 00:19:01,100 --> 00:18:59,670 cinema I made two movies the one that 459 00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:01,110 you saw and the first one that I 460 00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:03,360 actually kind of toured around in 2011 461 00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,950 and 2012 that I wasn't happy with I 462 00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:06,480 literally threw out a feature film 463 00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:09,360 started all over again I got my hands on 464 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:11,910 since the first time since film school 465 00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,890 cuz they're very expensive lenses and 466 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:15,840 then there was this great new technology 467 00:19:21,050 --> 00:19:18,510 that was developed the CMOS sensor 468 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:21,060 inside of camera called a Canon 5d Mark 469 00:19:26,030 --> 00:19:23,370 3 which I still use to this day modified 470 00:19:27,890 --> 00:19:26,040 it's a wonderful camera and so finally I 471 00:19:29,780 --> 00:19:27,900 felt like a filmmaker again so I wanted 472 00:19:31,850 --> 00:19:29,790 to start my movie all over again 473 00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:31,860 there are devices now that we can use 474 00:19:35,330 --> 00:19:33,240 and things like you know instead of 475 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:35,340 laying down 50 feet of dolly track you 476 00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:37,290 have sliders or now you have something 477 00:19:41,210 --> 00:19:38,520 called a ronin which is like a 478 00:19:42,830 --> 00:19:41,220 modern-day Steadicam unit so if you know 479 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:42,840 what you're doing you have all the 480 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:44,810 devices you have the devices for 481 00:19:48,650 --> 00:19:46,530 post-production so I realized it could 482 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:48,660 be done with a lot of focus and 483 00:19:53,030 --> 00:19:51,210 application and love and all of those 484 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:53,040 recreations that you saw in Montauk 485 00:19:58,340 --> 00:19:55,770 chronicles they were shot in two very 486 00:20:00,410 --> 00:19:58,350 small rooms in a suburban basement and 487 00:20:02,270 --> 00:20:00,420 uh yeah and it was just done with you 488 00:20:05,090 --> 00:20:02,280 know you use a 17 millimeter lens you 489 00:20:07,340 --> 00:20:05,100 can [\h__\h] augment change the perspective 490 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:07,350 of a room make it look bigger or longer 491 00:20:11,180 --> 00:20:09,570 I knew that from you know experimenting 492 00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:11,190 with lenses just so long so it's like I 493 00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:13,260 just I just really pay attention I just 494 00:20:17,870 --> 00:20:15,720 did my best to try and make it look the 495 00:20:20,540 --> 00:20:17,880 best and every frame I was just very 496 00:20:22,430 --> 00:20:20,550 meticulous you know paying attention and 497 00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:22,440 obviously have my influences everybody 498 00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:24,960 from you know Steven Spielberg - Verner 499 00:20:29,390 --> 00:20:27,120 Herzog so it's like I I just loved 500 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:29,400 movies and so like I really needed to do 501 00:20:33,290 --> 00:20:30,570 this and I really needed to make 502 00:20:35,630 --> 00:20:33,300 something solid and I also cared here's 503 00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:35,640 the other thing outside of loving cinema 504 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:39,900 I really feel that if there were boys 505 00:20:43,910 --> 00:20:41,730 that were kidnapped off the streets of 506 00:20:45,950 --> 00:20:43,920 New York City in the 1970s and if they 507 00:20:47,780 --> 00:20:45,960 were absorbed into this program that 508 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:47,790 they were murdered they're not gonna 509 00:20:52,669 --> 00:20:50,490 have a voice because traditional journal 510 00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:52,679 some won't touch that unless we find 511 00:20:57,890 --> 00:20:54,630 some evidence which is why I'd like to 512 00:21:00,590 --> 00:20:57,900 be the guy who focuses on that as 513 00:21:02,450 --> 00:21:00,600 opposed to focusing on focusing mainly 514 00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:02,460 primarily on the time travel stuff and 515 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:05,520 on the alien stuff I want to focus on 516 00:21:09,740 --> 00:21:07,410 the boys program because if these 517 00:21:12,260 --> 00:21:09,750 children were murdered in this thing I'd 518 00:21:14,180 --> 00:21:12,270 like to be the one person who brings a 519 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:14,190 lot of attention to it to maybe give 520 00:21:17,780 --> 00:21:15,570 them a voice because they're forgotten 521 00:21:20,060 --> 00:21:17,790 if this is the case if it did really 522 00:21:23,180 --> 00:21:20,070 happen that is a wonderful point Chris 523 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:23,190 um I I have a play that's gonna be 524 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:25,290 premiering in New York little shameless 525 00:21:30,980 --> 00:21:29,130 plug here it's a it's a modern-day take 526 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:30,990 on the Jack the Ripper murders I was 527 00:21:35,450 --> 00:21:32,970 commissioned yeah I was commissioned to 528 00:21:38,570 --> 00:21:35,460 write this play for Halloween about five 529 00:21:41,450 --> 00:21:38,580 years ago now and so I really got into 530 00:21:45,049 --> 00:21:41,460 the whole serial killer scene as it were 531 00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:45,059 a very dark disturbing kind of 532 00:21:49,310 --> 00:21:47,820 subculture in here in America and you 533 00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:49,320 know you do start to become very 534 00:21:53,930 --> 00:21:51,960 fascinated with the killer with what 535 00:21:55,790 --> 00:21:53,940 made them do this what was the motive 536 00:21:58,280 --> 00:21:55,800 what is their background but what many 537 00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:58,290 people forget are the you know the 538 00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:01,679 handfuls of victims that that occurred 539 00:22:06,650 --> 00:22:04,110 because of these people they are never a 540 00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:06,660 focus they're forgotten and you know I 541 00:22:10,610 --> 00:22:08,760 think what you're doing in giving a 542 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:10,620 voice to the Montauk Boys which I would 543 00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:12,450 love to elaborate on in just a moment 544 00:22:17,450 --> 00:22:14,580 here is giving them a voice and 545 00:22:20,030 --> 00:22:17,460 remembering that if any of this happened 546 00:22:21,890 --> 00:22:20,040 if the Montauk Boys were were a real 547 00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:21,900 thing happening during the Montauk 548 00:22:25,820 --> 00:22:22,559 Project 549 00:22:27,919 --> 00:22:25,830 that's horrible it's absolutely horrible 550 00:22:31,490 --> 00:22:27,929 that this would be going on in New York 551 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:31,500 and in America in general so if you 552 00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,050 could would you mind sort of giving us a 553 00:22:39,740 --> 00:22:36,720 I guess a Cliff Notes version of what 554 00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:39,750 the Montauk boys actually are okay sure 555 00:22:45,049 --> 00:22:41,760 and I think it plays sounds amazing by 556 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:45,059 the way so okay so this is what is said 557 00:22:48,860 --> 00:22:47,010 to have happened so these Nazi 558 00:22:50,780 --> 00:22:48,870 scientists that I mentioned earlier the 559 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:50,790 paperclip scientists they were involved 560 00:22:56,150 --> 00:22:52,770 in some really you know sadistic 561 00:22:57,620 --> 00:22:56,160 horrible things like something called 562 00:23:00,620 --> 00:22:57,630 look up something called middle werkes 563 00:23:03,290 --> 00:23:00,630 it was where v2 rockets were developed 564 00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:03,300 during Nazi Germany but there were a lot 565 00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:04,110 of 566 00:23:10,250 --> 00:23:07,710 were brought down there and basically 567 00:23:12,740 --> 00:23:10,260 used as something much worse than even 568 00:23:15,650 --> 00:23:12,750 modern slavery and the not modern 569 00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:15,660 slavery but you know Antebellum slavery 570 00:23:20,750 --> 00:23:19,080 in the u.s. or or even you know horrible 571 00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:20,760 prison situations in third-world 572 00:23:24,740 --> 00:23:23,280 countries like this was just evil they 573 00:23:26,270 --> 00:23:24,750 would bring these people down there and 574 00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:26,280 these are some of the scientists that we 575 00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:29,100 absorb too we celebrated and made them 576 00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:31,440 rich that these guys would oversee 577 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:34,260 horrible bouts of torture and death and 578 00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:37,410 murder of people who were prisoners at 579 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:39,150 the concentration camps that had to dig 580 00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:40,410 with their hands until they were 581 00:23:44,690 --> 00:23:43,049 basically dead beaten abused so these 582 00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:44,700 guys were used to this kind of thing if 583 00:23:52,190 --> 00:23:48,240 this is true and so between 1971 and 584 00:23:55,030 --> 00:23:52,200 1983 the proprietors of the Montauk 585 00:23:59,390 --> 00:23:55,040 Project the alleged Montauk Project 586 00:24:03,909 --> 00:23:59,400 needed human subjects and so what would 587 00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:03,919 be better than to find prisoners or 588 00:24:08,539 --> 00:24:06,870 people in an orphanage or people in a 589 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:08,549 mental institution and these are the 590 00:24:13,010 --> 00:24:10,890 places that we found out in alike 591 00:24:17,299 --> 00:24:13,020 programs like the Holmesburg prison 592 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:17,309 experiments see this is a is tantamount 593 00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:20,130 so it's very believable that it was 594 00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:22,080 happening in another place like camp 595 00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:24,080 hero and that they were also looking for 596 00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:27,600 human subjects human subjects would be 597 00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:29,220 easy pickins if you looked on the 598 00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:31,440 streets of New York City between 1971 599 00:24:35,539 --> 00:24:34,080 and 1983 there were an astronomical 600 00:24:39,169 --> 00:24:35,549 amount of runaways 601 00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:39,179 now you know males prostitutes living on 602 00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:41,520 the streets kids that ran away from home 603 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:44,160 drug addicts kids it wouldn't be missed 604 00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:46,770 and so this is what they say they were 605 00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:49,049 looking for these were the disposables 606 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:50,760 the kids that they were absorbing into 607 00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:53,970 this program so between 1971 and 1983 608 00:24:57,530 --> 00:24:55,919 there would be these dark characters 609 00:24:59,659 --> 00:24:57,540 that would go out and recruit these 610 00:25:02,419 --> 00:24:59,669 runaway children it would be kidnapped 611 00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:02,429 they would be brought down into this 612 00:25:08,330 --> 00:25:06,320 dank you know non cosmetically appealing 613 00:25:09,950 --> 00:25:08,340 facility and that's why how I wanted to 614 00:25:11,330 --> 00:25:09,960 make it in the movie it was like you 615 00:25:14,570 --> 00:25:11,340 know this isn't like this sterile 616 00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:14,580 beautiful Hospital they don't care you 617 00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:16,470 know this is this is a it was described 618 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:17,520 by the 619 00:25:21,230 --> 00:25:19,050 victims that it was just you know 620 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:21,240 Stonewall's in some cases we're leaking 621 00:25:25,820 --> 00:25:24,330 water it was really nasty and dirty so 622 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:25,830 that's the way I wanted to make it and 623 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:26,730 so they were brought down to this 624 00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:28,410 horrible place and if you want me to 625 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:31,110 continue I will oh yes please okay 626 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:32,970 fortunately yes I would like you to 627 00:25:39,140 --> 00:25:35,850 continue sure and again I I could have 628 00:25:40,790 --> 00:25:39,150 easily have made it as bad as I imagined 629 00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:40,800 it would have been but I don't think I 630 00:25:45,380 --> 00:25:43,560 would have had many audience members and 631 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:45,390 I could think of two movies that maybe 632 00:25:49,820 --> 00:25:47,730 would have gone a little further than I 633 00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:49,830 did in Montauk chronicles I tried to sit 634 00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:52,110 make more signal to suggest it you know 635 00:25:55,460 --> 00:25:54,120 visually as opposed to actually showing 636 00:25:57,830 --> 00:25:55,470 what happened but these kids were 637 00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:57,840 kidnapped and the technique which is 638 00:26:01,880 --> 00:25:59,760 which was used in other places that we 639 00:26:03,950 --> 00:26:01,890 could prove where montt mind control 640 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:03,960 projects occurred the technique would be 641 00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:05,370 that they would bring the child down 642 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:07,910 there the teenager down there beat him 643 00:26:14,090 --> 00:26:11,610 to the point of where his personality 644 00:26:16,850 --> 00:26:14,100 was absolutely fractured anything that 645 00:26:18,890 --> 00:26:16,860 he was anything that you know anything 646 00:26:21,290 --> 00:26:18,900 that any security that he had within his 647 00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:21,300 psychological mainframe was completely 648 00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:24,390 shattered by the beatings by rapes by 649 00:26:28,940 --> 00:26:26,640 drugs being injected into his body 650 00:26:31,670 --> 00:26:28,950 massive amounts of experimental 651 00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:31,680 hallucinogens and I was told that 652 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:34,440 everything from you know the the people 653 00:26:38,570 --> 00:26:36,210 who were doing this were wearing masks 654 00:26:40,250 --> 00:26:38,580 to killing animals in front of them to 655 00:26:41,690 --> 00:26:40,260 beating other children in front of them 656 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:41,700 anything that they could do to create 657 00:26:45,950 --> 00:26:44,010 this fear trauma system to break their 658 00:26:49,910 --> 00:26:45,960 personalities to shatter them completely 659 00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:49,920 the beatings were the most horrible and 660 00:26:55,910 --> 00:26:52,260 the fact that they were doing it without 661 00:26:59,980 --> 00:26:55,920 the approval of the kids you know was 662 00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:03,220 one thing they loved to do was a drown 663 00:27:09,010 --> 00:27:06,080 you hold you underwater to the point 664 00:27:11,260 --> 00:27:09,020 where you were about to give up they 665 00:27:14,169 --> 00:27:11,270 wanted to split the by they wanted to 666 00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:14,179 shatter the line that they would program 667 00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:17,600 each individual piece for something else 668 00:27:21,370 --> 00:27:19,670 but what was the intention on the 669 00:27:26,970 --> 00:27:21,380 beatings and the drownings that must 670 00:27:32,260 --> 00:27:30,190 manipulated once that was achieved if 671 00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:32,270 the kid was still alive this would be 672 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:33,919 the point now where they would start to 673 00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:37,250 rebuild the child's mind and implant 674 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:40,880 this programming so the programming 675 00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,090 would be triggered by a symbol or a word 676 00:27:48,610 --> 00:27:46,640 or a series of words eventually where 677 00:27:51,730 --> 00:27:48,620 they could train this kid to be a 678 00:27:53,650 --> 00:27:51,740 Manchurian type assassin to go committed 679 00:27:54,909 --> 00:27:53,660 an assassin or a public atrocity or 680 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:54,919 whatever they were looking there's 681 00:27:58,419 --> 00:27:56,570 another aspect to this too that Alfred 682 00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:58,429 field claims that basically once they 683 00:28:03,850 --> 00:28:00,559 were shattered they'd be rebuilt into 684 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:03,860 these psychic soldiers for for a psychic 685 00:28:08,350 --> 00:28:06,890 warfare within the military and in short 686 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:08,360 that's what they were doing they were 687 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:10,130 kidnapping these kids and using them and 688 00:28:15,130 --> 00:28:13,490 all kinds myriad of experiments down a 689 00:28:17,380 --> 00:28:15,140 camp Bureau and a lot of them were just 690 00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:17,390 really dark and brutal the two movies I 691 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:19,910 was referring to earlier with the french 692 00:28:25,289 --> 00:28:22,610 film by pascal Legare called martyrs and 693 00:28:28,690 --> 00:28:25,299 the other one would be sallow by a 694 00:28:30,970 --> 00:28:28,700 Pasolini it isn't feasor i think if in 695 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:30,980 cinema anything represents what happened 696 00:28:34,299 --> 00:28:32,510 down there perfectly it would be these 697 00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:34,309 two movies and I don't think you know 698 00:28:38,980 --> 00:28:36,049 most people don't want to go there for 699 00:28:42,610 --> 00:28:38,990 the second movie so yeah let's only hope 700 00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:42,620 that it's as fictitious as possible but 701 00:28:48,460 --> 00:28:45,440 in terms of that crisp no we then move 702 00:28:51,580 --> 00:28:48,470 on to another project like we mentioned 703 00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,590 earlier that was recently aired on the 704 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:53,120 History Channel and that was the dark 705 00:28:58,210 --> 00:28:55,610 Files which also dives heavily into the 706 00:29:00,370 --> 00:28:58,220 Montauk Project how did the opportunity 707 00:29:02,409 --> 00:29:00,380 for dark files come about where where 708 00:29:05,919 --> 00:29:02,419 did this begin and where did Montauk 709 00:29:08,290 --> 00:29:05,929 chronicles end I guess sure well I was I 710 00:29:11,740 --> 00:29:08,300 made two movies over a course of ten 711 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:11,750 years so I was contacted by a few 712 00:29:15,310 --> 00:29:13,130 production companies including and 713 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:15,320 see Universal while I was making the two 714 00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:17,450 movies so it wasn't anything new that I 715 00:29:21,100 --> 00:29:19,100 started getting contacted by people that 716 00:29:23,289 --> 00:29:21,110 were interested in collaborating on 717 00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:23,299 something but the first thing that I 718 00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:25,520 felt was solid enough was when I was 719 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:31,039 contacted by the production company it 720 00:29:35,740 --> 00:29:33,770 was in December just as I was releasing 721 00:29:38,409 --> 00:29:35,750 montauk Chronicles which was December of 722 00:29:40,690 --> 00:29:38,419 2014 I started to release it as a 723 00:29:43,180 --> 00:29:40,700 streaming thing and then the DVD came 724 00:29:45,730 --> 00:29:43,190 out a little bit later in 2015 and the 725 00:29:49,270 --> 00:29:45,740 blu-ray but they were interested in 726 00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:49,280 talking so we started talking and it was 727 00:29:53,919 --> 00:29:50,870 a blank slate you know they they were 728 00:29:55,659 --> 00:29:53,929 they saw my film they wanted to further 729 00:29:57,700 --> 00:29:55,669 the investigation do something for 730 00:30:02,380 --> 00:29:57,710 television and so we started talking 731 00:30:03,940 --> 00:30:02,390 there and then within four months so it 732 00:30:05,380 --> 00:30:03,950 changed hands because you know the way 733 00:30:06,159 --> 00:30:05,390 it works is you have the production 734 00:30:07,659 --> 00:30:06,169 companies and then you have the 735 00:30:09,220 --> 00:30:07,669 network's networks 736 00:30:11,230 --> 00:30:09,230 hire the production companies to go and 737 00:30:13,810 --> 00:30:11,240 make the special so the television shows 738 00:30:15,460 --> 00:30:13,820 and then so it changed hands went to 739 00:30:17,020 --> 00:30:15,470 another production company and became 740 00:30:19,330 --> 00:30:17,030 something else and I actually shot a 741 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:19,340 pilot with this other production company 742 00:30:23,980 --> 00:30:21,770 but it wasn't even on the same topic it 743 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:23,990 was something very different so I was 744 00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:25,730 kind of disappointed in that situation 745 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:27,110 only because we didn't stick to the 746 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:29,570 program but I was retained all along so 747 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:31,610 eventually the original production 748 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:33,530 company Texas crew Productions bunch of 749 00:30:37,630 --> 00:30:35,510 great guys who I worked with now call 750 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:37,640 back the following January and said well 751 00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:40,010 we have the project back we want to they 752 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:41,840 want to do this and so we started from 753 00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:43,970 scratch again and it was just I don't 754 00:30:49,570 --> 00:30:46,640 know hundreds of pages of notes meetings 755 00:30:51,010 --> 00:30:49,580 in in Texas you know I guess 756 00:30:52,270 --> 00:30:51,020 communicating back and forth with 757 00:30:55,630 --> 00:30:52,280 history about what they were interested 758 00:30:57,100 --> 00:30:55,640 in and then it was around summer that 759 00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:57,110 because I in the beginning you know they 760 00:31:00,820 --> 00:30:58,610 wanted me to be an on-screen host 761 00:31:02,529 --> 00:31:00,830 remember I'm a filmmaker so I started 762 00:31:04,270 --> 00:31:02,539 off just wanting to be behind the scenes 763 00:31:08,049 --> 00:31:04,280 I'm gonna get the producer on the 764 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:08,059 project so by July they said well they I 765 00:31:11,950 --> 00:31:10,250 think they want you to host as well and 766 00:31:13,930 --> 00:31:11,960 I said I guess I'll do it you know I 767 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:13,940 guess we'll give it a shot but I really 768 00:31:17,950 --> 00:31:15,770 had a lot to do with what was going on 769 00:31:19,870 --> 00:31:17,960 behind the scenes for the most part but 770 00:31:21,820 --> 00:31:19,880 the hosting thing came as a secondary 771 00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,830 thing but I enjoyed it and I enjoyed 772 00:31:25,630 --> 00:31:23,360 being part of the investigation we chose 773 00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:25,640 my co-hosts barry eisler and steve Volk 774 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:27,110 I would say around 775 00:31:30,910 --> 00:31:29,090 August after testing a lot of different 776 00:31:32,260 --> 00:31:30,920 people and I think you were even on the 777 00:31:33,940 --> 00:31:32,270 list you know like it was it they were 778 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:33,950 just juggling a lot of different people 779 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:36,290 a lot of people a Maureen Elsberry I it 780 00:31:39,549 --> 00:31:37,610 was on the list a whole bunch of 781 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:39,559 different people to try with me but I 782 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:40,970 think there was so many people on the 783 00:31:44,020 --> 00:31:42,530 list and ultimately they wanted someone 784 00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:44,030 very different than myself 785 00:31:48,130 --> 00:31:46,670 he chose a a journalist from The 786 00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:48,140 Washington Post who's very skeptical 787 00:31:52,450 --> 00:31:50,000 Steve Volk wrote this great book string 788 00:31:56,140 --> 00:31:52,460 geology and barry eisler 789 00:31:59,530 --> 00:31:56,150 who is ex-cia and an author and he was 790 00:32:01,299 --> 00:31:59,540 also a lawyer so interesting guys and 791 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:01,309 and that's who they ended up settling on 792 00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:04,250 i i i thought the dichotomy between the 793 00:32:08,380 --> 00:32:06,559 three of you was fantastic I mean you 794 00:32:10,690 --> 00:32:08,390 had you who you know you've been 795 00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,700 researching this this mystery for so 796 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:12,320 long then you have someone like Steve 797 00:32:17,710 --> 00:32:15,410 Oak love love love his book who brings 798 00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:17,720 that skeptical side to it and is a 799 00:32:22,419 --> 00:32:20,720 journalist he is going to grill these 800 00:32:25,299 --> 00:32:22,429 people who you eventually interview on 801 00:32:27,370 --> 00:32:25,309 the dark files as best he can that is 802 00:32:28,030 --> 00:32:27,380 his job and then to have someone like I 803 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:28,040 said come on 804 00:32:33,070 --> 00:32:30,890 you know his experience with the CIA and 805 00:32:35,530 --> 00:32:33,080 intelligence agencies I can only imagine 806 00:32:38,169 --> 00:32:35,540 that he would bring an observant eye in 807 00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:38,179 terms of if these people are telling the 808 00:32:41,950 --> 00:32:38,480 truth 809 00:32:45,070 --> 00:32:41,960 in terms of you know even in the special 810 00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:45,080 you show like they're there their eyes 811 00:32:50,409 --> 00:32:47,990 twitching or the way they move in terms 812 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:50,419 of like if they're lying or stressed it 813 00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:52,130 was awesome it was awesome to see the 814 00:32:55,870 --> 00:32:53,840 dichotomy between the three of you I 815 00:32:58,690 --> 00:32:55,880 thought you guys made a great team and 816 00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:58,700 that ultimately made dark files 817 00:33:04,990 --> 00:33:01,360 different than most shows where it's 818 00:33:06,850 --> 00:33:05,000 from one you know one focus we're going 819 00:33:09,070 --> 00:33:06,860 to prove that this is alien we are going 820 00:33:10,930 --> 00:33:09,080 to prove this is Time Traveller's or the 821 00:33:13,180 --> 00:33:10,940 Montauk Boys so I thought that was 822 00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:13,190 really interesting you guys did a lot in 823 00:33:16,659 --> 00:33:15,440 a short amount of time the limited 824 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:16,669 amount of time that you have for a 825 00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:19,250 special like this so again kudos on that 826 00:33:23,049 --> 00:33:21,710 thank you so much thank you of course 827 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:23,059 and I would have loved to have been 828 00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:24,410 involved but I think you could have 829 00:33:28,990 --> 00:33:27,440 picked a better team to be honest I mean 830 00:33:31,060 --> 00:33:29,000 if we do you know we're gonna do more 831 00:33:32,980 --> 00:33:31,070 episodes so what's cool about that is 832 00:33:35,169 --> 00:33:32,990 now it opens the door for bringing in 833 00:33:37,030 --> 00:33:35,179 more people more people that are I think 834 00:33:38,830 --> 00:33:37,040 have a lot to say like yourself and I 835 00:33:40,820 --> 00:33:38,840 think Maureen is great and I think all 836 00:33:42,590 --> 00:33:40,830 these people should know she's been on 837 00:33:45,169 --> 00:33:42,600 stuff before in so view but I just feel 838 00:33:47,299 --> 00:33:45,179 like in this realm I think it would be 839 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:47,309 more naturalistic and more true to who 840 00:33:51,019 --> 00:33:49,890 you are because I I I know that Brad 841 00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:51,029 Bernstein is the showrunner and 842 00:33:53,810 --> 00:33:52,799 everybody else that's what they want you 843 00:33:55,820 --> 00:33:53,820 know that's what they want they want 844 00:33:57,799 --> 00:33:55,830 something as real as possible obviously 845 00:33:59,120 --> 00:33:57,809 we have to design a few things in terms 846 00:34:01,970 --> 00:33:59,130 of just getting the schedule down 847 00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:01,980 correctly right but otherwise it's very 848 00:34:06,919 --> 00:34:04,260 natural the way we put it together well 849 00:34:08,690 --> 00:34:06,929 yeah I think it's great and you got my 850 00:34:11,389 --> 00:34:08,700 card my man and I'm sure a few of the 851 00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:11,399 listeners would love to be involved but 852 00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:14,399 you know back back to dark files okay so 853 00:34:18,740 --> 00:34:15,960 you have the three of you going out to 854 00:34:22,180 --> 00:34:18,750 investigate camp hero see what was going 855 00:34:25,820 --> 00:34:22,190 on there and you came across an 856 00:34:28,250 --> 00:34:25,830 extremely compelling video by Brian 857 00:34:30,139 --> 00:34:28,260 Minich could you possibly 858 00:34:33,310 --> 00:34:30,149 I know it's hard this is an audio 859 00:34:36,020 --> 00:34:33,320 interview but possibly describe what we 860 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:36,030 even just teased what we were seeing in 861 00:34:41,810 --> 00:34:38,970 this video of course Brian is great he 862 00:34:45,020 --> 00:34:41,820 he was a wonderful surprise because we 863 00:34:46,849 --> 00:34:45,030 were we were working with all of her 864 00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:46,859 over at Dan's papers which is a paper on 865 00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:49,169 the East End of Long Island and I 866 00:34:53,839 --> 00:34:52,560 believe he referred Brian to us and we 867 00:34:56,659 --> 00:34:53,849 were working with another guy named Paul 868 00:34:58,730 --> 00:34:56,669 Fagan who had a lot of great research in 869 00:35:00,500 --> 00:34:58,740 regard to camp hero but it was more like 870 00:35:02,270 --> 00:35:00,510 a geographical research Brian on the 871 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:02,280 other hand who was visiting the place 872 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:05,130 for many years and documenting since he 873 00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:06,690 was a kid since he was a teenager they 874 00:35:11,660 --> 00:35:08,760 were kind of urban explorers and him and 875 00:35:13,940 --> 00:35:11,670 his buddies would you know explore the 876 00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:13,950 base and look through and I knew they 877 00:35:18,410 --> 00:35:16,470 knew of the the legends behind the base 878 00:35:20,359 --> 00:35:18,420 at the time so that made it exciting for 879 00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:20,369 them and I guess we kind of lived 880 00:35:23,930 --> 00:35:22,020 vicariously where we watch his videos 881 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:23,940 through these kids cuz that's that's 882 00:35:28,910 --> 00:35:25,890 what the it is it's just him as a kid 883 00:35:31,730 --> 00:35:28,920 and as friends kind of exploring the 884 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:31,740 base and finding evidence that has since 885 00:35:38,510 --> 00:35:34,650 been covered and and and constructed 886 00:35:41,810 --> 00:35:38,520 over so everything from evidence that 887 00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:41,820 there are underground levels not okay 888 00:35:46,690 --> 00:35:43,710 not I mean we found something much more 889 00:35:50,660 --> 00:35:46,700 significant later on on the show with 890 00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:50,670 the geological researchers but in regard 891 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:53,640 to Brian he has actual footage of things 892 00:35:56,300 --> 00:35:54,570 that 893 00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:56,310 exist anymore everything from these 894 00:36:00,350 --> 00:35:58,560 little channels that show you lower 895 00:36:05,810 --> 00:36:00,360 levels at least right beneath the 896 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:05,820 surface to the acid houses right things 897 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:07,290 that have been dubbed the acid s the 898 00:36:11,050 --> 00:36:08,850 things that were topside structures that 899 00:36:13,730 --> 00:36:11,060 were topside we're allegedly 900 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:13,740 psychological experiments took place you 901 00:36:17,870 --> 00:36:15,810 cannot deny that in one of these 902 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:17,880 structures that is now no longer there 903 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:19,290 okay they knocked it down and made a 904 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:21,450 picnic area out of it but Brian had 905 00:36:25,370 --> 00:36:23,850 photos and footage that just blew me 906 00:36:28,130 --> 00:36:25,380 away because you'll never see these 907 00:36:30,110 --> 00:36:28,140 structures again and he has it he has 908 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:30,120 the footage of the interior of the acid 909 00:36:34,610 --> 00:36:32,370 house where every single room we've 910 00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:34,620 established was deliberately painted a 911 00:36:40,220 --> 00:36:38,040 very peculiar pattern on each wall this 912 00:36:42,260 --> 00:36:40,230 isn't something that kids did this isn't 913 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:42,270 something that Ford military guys did 914 00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:45,450 this was this I truly believe in my 915 00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,240 heart as a you know a fairly intelligent 916 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:50,880 guy I believe that this this place was 917 00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:52,890 used for these experiments and Steve 918 00:36:58,100 --> 00:36:56,310 bulk took the information over to summit 919 00:36:59,420 --> 00:36:58,110 Timothy Leary's people who had worked 920 00:37:02,510 --> 00:36:59,430 with psychedelic drugs during 921 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:02,520 experiments and two of them confirmed 922 00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,890 that they believed that these patterns 923 00:37:09,740 --> 00:37:06,480 were used for the same purposes as well 924 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:09,750 absolutely I mean we have evidence and 925 00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:13,050 proof that the military were doing these 926 00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:15,510 experiments at one time we have video 927 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:18,510 proof that this has happened so like you 928 00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:22,110 said just the stark evidence of the acid 929 00:37:27,410 --> 00:37:24,800 houses alone says that something 930 00:37:27,860 --> 00:37:27,420 different something strange was going on 931 00:37:30,380 --> 00:37:27,870 there 932 00:37:32,990 --> 00:37:30,390 mind-altering drugs you know things to 933 00:37:35,660 --> 00:37:33,000 do with the mind I can only imagine and 934 00:37:39,170 --> 00:37:35,670 the fact that we now have this evidence 935 00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:39,180 immortalized in terms of Brian's footage 936 00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:41,700 it's amazing and and I can't believe 937 00:37:45,830 --> 00:37:43,200 that you guys were able to get that I I 938 00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:45,840 I hope he has it in a safe place and I 939 00:37:49,940 --> 00:37:48,000 hope that you keep in close contact with 940 00:37:52,010 --> 00:37:49,950 him to make sure he doesn't disappear 941 00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,020 off the grid oh I think he's he's 942 00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,240 interested in talking more about it I I 943 00:37:59,000 --> 00:37:56,640 suggested he put a dock together himself 944 00:38:01,040 --> 00:37:59,010 or a book and a website because I think 945 00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:01,050 that would just be so helpful to further 946 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:03,540 research because once again this is such 947 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:06,210 it started off as such a fringy type 948 00:38:10,220 --> 00:38:08,490 subject because of the first book 949 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:10,230 because of all the stuff that's in it I 950 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:12,090 mean we're talking about monsters and 951 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:13,890 all sorts of different creatures and 952 00:38:18,530 --> 00:38:15,570 people who travel back to biblical 953 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:18,540 characters you know it starts off as a 954 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:20,610 difficult thing to swallow all in one 955 00:38:25,070 --> 00:38:23,610 place for most people so now that we've 956 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:25,080 actually found a little evidence there 957 00:38:28,250 --> 00:38:26,730 may have been experiments there because 958 00:38:29,450 --> 00:38:28,260 on public record they say that the 959 00:38:32,180 --> 00:38:29,460 number one there's nothing underneath 960 00:38:34,190 --> 00:38:32,190 the ground but there is and number two 961 00:38:36,109 --> 00:38:34,200 or number one as well that nothing 962 00:38:37,790 --> 00:38:36,119 happened there outside of normal 963 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:37,800 operations that we know about 964 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:40,890 historically so that's not the case I 965 00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,810 don't believe that for a second and I 966 00:38:46,820 --> 00:38:44,640 can't confirm all the other more 967 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:46,830 extraordinary stuff but what I I think 968 00:38:50,990 --> 00:38:48,930 we're close to confirming is that there 969 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:51,000 there were experiments there sure I 970 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:54,450 couldn't agree more no in terms of the 971 00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:57,090 more extraordinary claims Chris I'm 972 00:39:01,160 --> 00:38:58,890 gonna sort of put you on the spot here 973 00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:01,170 we have many people you interviewed who 974 00:39:07,609 --> 00:39:05,040 claim to have been Montauk boys some of 975 00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:07,619 them very convincing some of them having 976 00:39:15,020 --> 00:39:11,160 stories that are so out there that it 977 00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:15,030 made my brain hurt no one of these 978 00:39:19,070 --> 00:39:17,520 people is extremely contentious it is 979 00:39:22,250 --> 00:39:19,080 the elephant in the room and that is 980 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:22,260 Stuart's Warlow and when you see the 981 00:39:27,020 --> 00:39:24,090 dark files I suggest everyone go watch 982 00:39:29,599 --> 00:39:27,030 it there is a pretty heated exchange 983 00:39:31,820 --> 00:39:29,609 that happens during during the special 984 00:39:33,620 --> 00:39:31,830 we won't give that away but what do you 985 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:33,630 think of this guy man I mean out of all 986 00:39:38,330 --> 00:39:35,850 the people it seems to be the most 987 00:39:40,430 --> 00:39:38,340 contentious story out there and even 988 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:40,440 questioning if this guy was involved so 989 00:39:44,690 --> 00:39:42,810 again putting me on the spot who is this 990 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:44,700 guy and what do you make of him what I 991 00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:47,250 might in short because we could go on 992 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:50,430 all day about this but uh I not to be 993 00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:52,650 trusted I believe that this is a 994 00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:55,680 gentleman who ran into Preston Nichols 995 00:40:00,410 --> 00:39:57,450 late in the game saw it as an 996 00:40:04,430 --> 00:40:00,420 opportunity perhaps to incorporate this 997 00:40:06,260 --> 00:40:04,440 thing into his lineage and and use it to 998 00:40:08,810 --> 00:40:06,270 to profit off of it 999 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:08,820 because I've seen him just do some 1000 00:40:13,060 --> 00:40:11,130 really nefarious stuff to people you 1001 00:40:15,260 --> 00:40:13,070 know and within his own groups and 1002 00:40:17,630 --> 00:40:15,270 people that I know and people that I 1003 00:40:19,250 --> 00:40:17,640 care about and my even myself I mean 1004 00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:19,260 this is a guy you got you have to be 1005 00:40:22,130 --> 00:40:21,270 very careful this is a man who claims 1006 00:40:25,069 --> 00:40:22,140 that 1007 00:40:28,009 --> 00:40:25,079 he literally traveled back in time to 1008 00:40:30,589 --> 00:40:28,019 the crucifixion of probably the most 1009 00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:30,599 well-known biblical character Jesus 1010 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:33,599 Christ and went to physically touched 1011 00:40:38,779 --> 00:40:37,170 his feet extracted blood from him asked 1012 00:40:40,970 --> 00:40:38,789 him for forgiveness I mean where is it 1013 00:40:43,759 --> 00:40:40,980 coming with us and then traveled back 1014 00:40:45,620 --> 00:40:43,769 and used the blood to clone him this is 1015 00:40:47,359 --> 00:40:45,630 one of the stories he tells he also 1016 00:40:49,069 --> 00:40:47,369 tells people a variety of other things 1017 00:40:51,049 --> 00:40:49,079 too that I just I think you should be 1018 00:40:52,970 --> 00:40:51,059 very very cautious because I'm 1019 00:40:55,339 --> 00:40:52,980 astonished that there are some really 1020 00:40:57,799 --> 00:40:55,349 great people that listen to his stories 1021 00:41:01,000 --> 00:40:57,809 I mean I've seen I've attended some of 1022 00:41:03,559 --> 00:41:01,010 his lectures and I'm just blown away by 1023 00:41:05,029 --> 00:41:03,569 some of the great people that actually 1024 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:05,039 attend these things and listen to this 1025 00:41:09,019 --> 00:41:07,170 guy's words and don't even they don't 1026 00:41:10,849 --> 00:41:09,029 even question they don't you can dig to 1027 00:41:13,549 --> 00:41:10,859 do any research yeah this is a man who 1028 00:41:17,420 --> 00:41:13,559 claims he was blind until he was 40 35 1029 00:41:19,069 --> 00:41:17,430 years old completely blind and then he 1030 00:41:22,430 --> 00:41:19,079 doesn't remember the name of the doctor 1031 00:41:24,259 --> 00:41:22,440 who cured his blindness can't tell us 1032 00:41:28,299 --> 00:41:24,269 just about anything it's just a very 1033 00:41:31,819 --> 00:41:28,309 thin flimsy and some in many cases 1034 00:41:34,579 --> 00:41:31,829 extremely offensively outrageous stories 1035 00:41:37,460 --> 00:41:34,589 that he tells that I feel regardless of 1036 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:37,470 whatever he's doing you shouldn't let 1037 00:41:41,509 --> 00:41:38,970 this distract you from the fact that 1038 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:41,519 there may have been a brutal mind 1039 00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:42,930 control program that occurred a camp 1040 00:41:46,670 --> 00:41:45,119 hero and and that's how I feel about him 1041 00:41:48,529 --> 00:41:46,680 in short I it's hard for me it's 1042 00:41:50,690 --> 00:41:48,539 probably for legal reasons too that I 1043 00:41:53,089 --> 00:41:50,700 can't go on and on about him but um yeah 1044 00:41:55,279 --> 00:41:53,099 I don't I don't trust him and I have 1045 00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:55,289 many good reasons not to and I don't 1046 00:41:58,640 --> 00:41:56,880 think anyone else should either I think 1047 00:42:00,170 --> 00:41:58,650 you should be very cautious great well I 1048 00:42:02,059 --> 00:42:00,180 mean I'm glad we could clear the air on 1049 00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:02,069 that because the minute I saw the guy on 1050 00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:03,839 the special I didn't believe a word he 1051 00:42:09,759 --> 00:42:06,569 said but again I was not fair but that 1052 00:42:13,819 --> 00:42:09,769 being said you also you give us a good 1053 00:42:17,150 --> 00:42:13,829 look into nickels very late in his life 1054 00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:17,160 and it's clear that whatever this man 1055 00:42:22,130 --> 00:42:19,380 has been through it has clearly affected 1056 00:42:26,539 --> 00:42:22,140 him in many ways I mean you you were in 1057 00:42:29,029 --> 00:42:26,549 his home it was it's kind of sad man I 1058 00:42:30,410 --> 00:42:29,039 mean to look at where he is now and we 1059 00:42:32,779 --> 00:42:30,420 see this a lot with people who are 1060 00:42:34,809 --> 00:42:32,789 involved with things who blow the 1061 00:42:36,049 --> 00:42:34,819 whistle on things that you see this 1062 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:36,059 deterioration with 1063 00:42:40,089 --> 00:42:38,249 in their life they've risked and 1064 00:42:42,319 --> 00:42:40,099 sacrificed a lot they've probably lost 1065 00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:42,329 friends colleagues family members 1066 00:42:46,429 --> 00:42:44,160 because of the information they're 1067 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:46,439 bringing forward or it could all be a 1068 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:49,410 complete fabrication again who are we to 1069 00:42:53,630 --> 00:42:52,170 say but I found it very interesting that 1070 00:42:56,689 --> 00:42:53,640 you know between when you first 1071 00:43:00,380 --> 00:42:56,699 interviewed Nichols and now it seems 1072 00:43:02,449 --> 00:43:00,390 like a lot has changed am I kind of am I 1073 00:43:04,549 --> 00:43:02,459 on the right path with that very much so 1074 00:43:06,799 --> 00:43:04,559 and you know when I interviewed Nichols 1075 00:43:08,479 --> 00:43:06,809 for the first time in O six that's not 1076 00:43:09,650 --> 00:43:08,489 the footage that's in my movie Montauk 1077 00:43:11,329 --> 00:43:09,660 chronicles and you've seen the 1078 00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:11,339 difference between Montauk chronicles 1079 00:43:15,650 --> 00:43:12,569 and the dark files and how he has 1080 00:43:18,499 --> 00:43:15,660 deteriorated yeah well that's just I 1081 00:43:20,449 --> 00:43:18,509 think that's just age finally catching 1082 00:43:22,279 --> 00:43:20,459 up with Freston and he's not doing so 1083 00:43:23,989 --> 00:43:22,289 well the weird thing is the first time I 1084 00:43:27,739 --> 00:43:23,999 interviewed him in O six and I can route 1085 00:43:30,109 --> 00:43:27,749 I can release those eventually he was it 1086 00:43:32,749 --> 00:43:30,119 was weird he was hallucinating almost so 1087 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:32,759 he was much more lucid in 2013 when I 1088 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:34,650 went back to shoot the interviews again 1089 00:43:40,189 --> 00:43:37,410 and there was this weird moment where he 1090 00:43:41,959 --> 00:43:40,199 knew I shut the camera down he knew I 1091 00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:41,969 removed the lens and I put the cap on 1092 00:43:46,939 --> 00:43:45,599 the front element of the lens he he had 1093 00:43:48,289 --> 00:43:46,949 a completely different demeanor and 1094 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:48,299 composure and he just looked at me and 1095 00:43:50,809 --> 00:43:49,890 said you know Christopher I there's just 1096 00:43:52,789 --> 00:43:50,819 some things I'm not gonna be able to 1097 00:43:55,309 --> 00:43:52,799 tell you on camera and I looked at him 1098 00:43:58,239 --> 00:43:55,319 for a second like wow we this is the guy 1099 00:44:01,999 --> 00:43:58,249 I was just talking to I think he's much 1100 00:44:04,759 --> 00:44:02,009 much deeper and more complex person than 1101 00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:04,769 anybody might allow or most people might 1102 00:44:11,059 --> 00:44:07,529 allow Preston I do believe Preston was 1103 00:44:13,759 --> 00:44:11,069 involved some way at Camp hero not sure 1104 00:44:16,759 --> 00:44:13,769 what but he is a much more believable 1105 00:44:18,799 --> 00:44:16,769 person I feel then Stuart's word loved 1106 00:44:21,650 --> 00:44:18,809 much more you know Swerdlow seems to 1107 00:44:24,319 --> 00:44:21,660 just throw any outrageous elaborate 1108 00:44:26,449 --> 00:44:24,329 claim out you and it always has a price 1109 00:44:28,429 --> 00:44:26,459 tag and it has an obscene price tag 1110 00:44:29,929 --> 00:44:28,439 he'll charge you five grand for to have 1111 00:44:32,660 --> 00:44:29,939 an afternoon with him or something you 1112 00:44:34,669 --> 00:44:32,670 know we're very familiar with that in 1113 00:44:36,799 --> 00:44:34,679 the UFO field as well I won't name names 1114 00:44:39,380 --> 00:44:36,809 but I think the listeners know exactly 1115 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:39,390 who I'm talking about and again these 1116 00:44:44,179 --> 00:44:41,130 are people who will take advantage of 1117 00:44:46,969 --> 00:44:44,189 people's beliefs and just wring them for 1118 00:44:48,439 --> 00:44:46,979 every penny they can unfortunately you 1119 00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:48,449 and I run into that all the time with 1120 00:44:50,810 --> 00:44:49,440 these topics but 1121 00:44:52,610 --> 00:44:50,820 we're just trying to get the most 1122 00:44:54,740 --> 00:44:52,620 credible information out there and do 1123 00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:54,750 your research you're a shining example 1124 00:44:59,930 --> 00:44:57,090 of that one of the most powerful moments 1125 00:45:02,720 --> 00:44:59,940 in the dark files came when you visited 1126 00:45:05,150 --> 00:45:02,730 the prison and I would love to hear 1127 00:45:07,370 --> 00:45:05,160 about that in the two individuals you 1128 00:45:11,450 --> 00:45:07,380 guys spoke to who were actually inmates 1129 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:11,460 this was very disturbing and very sad 1130 00:45:18,740 --> 00:45:15,690 stuff yeah see here's where truth is as 1131 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:18,750 strange as fiction so we visited 1132 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:21,930 Holmesburg prison and we met a guy named 1133 00:45:26,810 --> 00:45:24,570 Alan horn Blum who is the author of many 1134 00:45:30,410 --> 00:45:26,820 books but one of which is acres of skin 1135 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:30,420 that focuses on for cosmetic and 1136 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:32,730 chemical experiments in Holmesburg but 1137 00:45:37,460 --> 00:45:35,850 also mind-control experiments and all of 1138 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:37,470 the techniques what what happened was 1139 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:39,570 the people who were running the 1140 00:45:46,180 --> 00:45:43,050 experiments set shop up at Holmesburg 1141 00:45:49,310 --> 00:45:46,190 prison and under false pretenses would 1142 00:45:51,980 --> 00:45:49,320 encourage prisoners for ten dollars or 1143 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:51,990 something to have certain solutions put 1144 00:45:55,550 --> 00:45:53,970 on their skin which would burn their 1145 00:45:57,170 --> 00:45:55,560 skin off and and you know this is 1146 00:45:59,690 --> 00:45:57,180 supposed to be a bubble-bath solution 1147 00:46:01,400 --> 00:45:59,700 but it's burning the guy's skin off so I 1148 00:46:03,110 --> 00:46:01,410 don't really believe half the time it 1149 00:46:04,370 --> 00:46:03,120 was even what they were saying it was 1150 00:46:07,180 --> 00:46:04,380 they were saying it was Johnson & 1151 00:46:10,810 --> 00:46:07,190 Johnson bubble bath or whatever but 1152 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:10,820 regardless of any of that they were 1153 00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:13,770 experimenting with a total mind control 1154 00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:16,110 program that horn Bloom also exposed and 1155 00:46:21,140 --> 00:46:18,390 again they were looking for human 1156 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:21,150 subjects they can't fully achieve a 1157 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:24,090 conclusion with lab rats they need 1158 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:27,810 people and the best easiest cheapest way 1159 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:31,050 to get human subjects to them if you if 1160 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:32,930 you get into their cold scientific 1161 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:35,610 perspective for a minute they're just 1162 00:46:38,510 --> 00:46:37,290 thinking logically saying why don't we 1163 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:38,520 go to prisons why don't we go to 1164 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:39,930 orphanages why don't we go to places 1165 00:46:43,970 --> 00:46:41,970 where nobody cares about anybody and 1166 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:43,980 that's what they were doing and this is 1167 00:46:48,890 --> 00:46:46,410 consistent this is just common practice 1168 00:46:51,980 --> 00:46:48,900 on their part during that time and so 1169 00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:51,990 that's why I find Montauk at least these 1170 00:46:57,050 --> 00:46:54,960 aspects these human experiment aspects 1171 00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:57,060 to be very believable and so at 1172 00:47:00,650 --> 00:46:58,650 Holmesburg there were several gentlemen 1173 00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:00,660 that we talked to when we visited for 1174 00:47:04,940 --> 00:47:02,910 the dark files and they 1175 00:47:06,890 --> 00:47:04,950 were survivors of these experiments and 1176 00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:06,900 they were subjected to a variety of 1177 00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:08,609 things I believe Yusef the one gentleman 1178 00:47:13,700 --> 00:47:12,000 we talked to was not all he described a 1179 00:47:15,529 --> 00:47:13,710 certain chemical being put on his back 1180 00:47:17,569 --> 00:47:15,539 and that at 8:00 the skin off his back 1181 00:47:19,069 --> 00:47:17,579 and ate the paint off the wall after he 1182 00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:19,079 removed the bandage and put it on the 1183 00:47:26,450 --> 00:47:22,079 wall oh god yeah so this wasn't bubble 1184 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:26,460 bath [\h__\h] and and so he was also in a 1185 00:47:29,599 --> 00:47:28,170 mind-control experiment we got that 1186 00:47:31,370 --> 00:47:29,609 footage of him talking about that as 1187 00:47:32,690 --> 00:47:31,380 well but I guess we weren't we didn't 1188 00:47:33,980 --> 00:47:32,700 put it in the show just because of you 1189 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:33,990 know getting it down to a certain amount 1190 00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:37,530 of hours but yeah he was also a victim 1191 00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:39,359 of the actual mind-control experiments 1192 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:41,760 which they were running I believe out of 1193 00:47:45,529 --> 00:47:43,650 several rooms in the back of the prison 1194 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:45,539 and in a trailer in the back of the 1195 00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:46,890 prison where they were injecting these 1196 00:47:52,130 --> 00:47:49,680 guys with massive amounts of drugs just 1197 00:47:54,049 --> 00:47:52,140 like the montauk experiments probably 1198 00:47:55,789 --> 00:47:54,059 putting them through some traumas that 1199 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:55,799 we didn't really know about and and so 1200 00:47:59,390 --> 00:47:57,450 all of this is available and this is 1201 00:48:01,130 --> 00:47:59,400 this has been confirmed this isn't even 1202 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:01,140 speculated this is a real thing this 1203 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:03,210 really happened and a lot of people 1204 00:48:08,359 --> 00:48:05,490 don't know this they don't realize it 1205 00:48:10,190 --> 00:48:08,369 because once again when we look into you 1206 00:48:12,319 --> 00:48:10,200 know these these fringe stories they're 1207 00:48:14,779 --> 00:48:12,329 always integrated with this this 1208 00:48:16,910 --> 00:48:14,789 fantastic or the supernatural aspect to 1209 00:48:20,059 --> 00:48:16,920 it which again I I'm not ruling out as 1210 00:48:21,890 --> 00:48:20,069 as a total hoax I'm just saying that the 1211 00:48:24,109 --> 00:48:21,900 montauk story and I've described this 1212 00:48:27,710 --> 00:48:24,119 before it's really strange it's like you 1213 00:48:29,779 --> 00:48:27,720 have ufology and you have stories of 1214 00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:29,789 hauntings and you have cryptids and 1215 00:48:33,650 --> 00:48:31,529 cryptozoology but then you have the 1216 00:48:35,930 --> 00:48:33,660 Montauk Project Montauk Project is 1217 00:48:39,019 --> 00:48:35,940 really strange it's it's like this 1218 00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,029 really sinister brutal tale with this 1219 00:48:43,730 --> 00:48:41,520 candy coating of aliens and monsters and 1220 00:48:48,380 --> 00:48:43,740 time-travel but it's got this real 1221 00:48:50,569 --> 00:48:48,390 sinister abusive malicious evil core to 1222 00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:50,579 it all and it's so disturbing and it's 1223 00:48:54,190 --> 00:48:52,529 so different than than any of these 1224 00:48:56,359 --> 00:48:54,200 other things and that's why it's 1225 00:48:58,220 --> 00:48:56,369 terrifying to me because I don't know 1226 00:49:00,349 --> 00:48:58,230 exactly what this is all about even 1227 00:49:03,049 --> 00:49:00,359 after ten years that is a good way to 1228 00:49:04,970 --> 00:49:03,059 look at it man I mean yeah I think a lot 1229 00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:04,980 of people tend to veer away from the 1230 00:49:09,859 --> 00:49:07,020 more dark and disturbing aspects they'd 1231 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:09,869 rather be safe with Pleiadians coming 1232 00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:11,970 here is space brother is there a spirit 1233 00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:13,470 coming back to give you the winning 1234 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:14,960 lottery numbers I don't know 1235 00:49:19,450 --> 00:49:17,690 but yeah I think you know people like 1236 00:49:21,490 --> 00:49:19,460 you and people who are looking into the 1237 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:21,500 Montauk Project takes a lot a lot of 1238 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:24,050 courage and I can only imagine it eats 1239 00:49:28,690 --> 00:49:26,930 away at you at times thinking that our 1240 00:49:31,359 --> 00:49:28,700 country could do these horrible things 1241 00:49:34,089 --> 00:49:31,369 to people but places like this prison it 1242 00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:34,099 is clear that they have been done and 1243 00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:35,839 that it only strengthens the possibility 1244 00:49:39,849 --> 00:49:37,460 I think that it could be done at Montauk 1245 00:49:42,220 --> 00:49:39,859 and you know at the end of dark files we 1246 00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:42,230 will not give this away but you like you 1247 00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:43,760 mentioned earlier you guys did some 1248 00:49:48,370 --> 00:49:46,730 pretty interesting geological I guess 1249 00:49:51,339 --> 00:49:48,380 what would you even call it satellite 1250 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:51,349 digs as it were of the area and you 1251 00:49:55,839 --> 00:49:53,570 found some very compelling things again 1252 00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:55,849 we'll leave the viewer to make their own 1253 00:50:00,400 --> 00:49:58,160 decisions on that but I think what's 1254 00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:00,410 going on there and the evidence you guys 1255 00:50:05,980 --> 00:50:02,960 have found has only strengthened the 1256 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:05,990 possibility that there is a core reality 1257 00:50:11,260 --> 00:50:08,570 that these experiments were going on 1258 00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:11,270 there yeah and we we did work with 1259 00:50:15,579 --> 00:50:13,609 geophysicists they were real they 1260 00:50:17,650 --> 00:50:15,589 weren't yeah you know I saw other I've 1261 00:50:20,410 --> 00:50:17,660 been around other situations where like 1262 00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:20,420 I would go up to the this is I can't say 1263 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:22,640 but I was alright I was on a project 1264 00:50:26,859 --> 00:50:25,130 that I was hired and I'm glad it didn't 1265 00:50:28,210 --> 00:50:26,869 work out but there was a moment where I 1266 00:50:29,980 --> 00:50:28,220 went up to one of the gentlemen and I 1267 00:50:32,530 --> 00:50:29,990 said oh so you're the electronics guy 1268 00:50:34,690 --> 00:50:32,540 what it what is your expertise he's like 1269 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:34,700 I don't have one I'm like what do you 1270 00:50:39,700 --> 00:50:36,410 mean you don't have one he's like I 1271 00:50:40,810 --> 00:50:39,710 don't know I'm an actor actor so in this 1272 00:50:43,599 --> 00:50:40,820 case we really did work with 1273 00:50:46,589 --> 00:50:43,609 geophysicists they're experts they can 1274 00:50:51,970 --> 00:50:46,599 be checked out and these guys found 1275 00:50:55,180 --> 00:50:51,980 several things of interest one of which 1276 00:50:57,790 --> 00:50:55,190 they used something called electric 1277 00:50:59,620 --> 00:50:57,800 resistivity imagery where and again we 1278 00:51:01,540 --> 00:50:59,630 had a lot of resistance from the town we 1279 00:51:04,030 --> 00:51:01,550 wanted to get closer to the actual 1280 00:51:06,130 --> 00:51:04,040 structure itself and for some reason I 1281 00:51:07,570 --> 00:51:06,140 mean even things you didn't see in the 1282 00:51:09,730 --> 00:51:07,580 show like the uns Army Corps of 1283 00:51:11,140 --> 00:51:09,740 Engineers blocking us from coming in it 1284 00:51:14,290 --> 00:51:11,150 was crazy 1285 00:51:16,870 --> 00:51:14,300 didn't even make it to the show but but 1286 00:51:19,540 --> 00:51:16,880 we have the footage and so these two you 1287 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:19,550 physicists would put these basically 1288 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:21,890 electrodes into the ground and then they 1289 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:23,930 would be tied together and the reading 1290 00:51:28,260 --> 00:51:26,450 would look problem perhaps sometimes 60 1291 00:51:31,590 --> 00:51:28,270 feet deep of 1292 00:51:33,930 --> 00:51:31,600 slice of imagery now this was just a 1293 00:51:35,730 --> 00:51:33,940 vertical slice but what they found 1294 00:51:38,550 --> 00:51:35,740 underneath the ground you'll see in the 1295 00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:38,560 show you can go check it out on History 1296 00:51:42,210 --> 00:51:40,270 Channel calm or I guess look for a 1297 00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:42,220 rebroadcast but something very 1298 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:44,110 significant remember the public record 1299 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:45,970 says there's absolutely nothing under 1300 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:48,490 the ground at Camp hero and that is not 1301 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:50,530 true and the geophysical equipment 1302 00:51:55,110 --> 00:51:52,210 proves that that there is something 1303 00:51:57,240 --> 00:51:55,120 man-made something enormous under the 1304 00:52:00,060 --> 00:51:57,250 ground I mean we only had a vertical 1305 00:52:02,070 --> 00:52:00,070 slice of imagery so imagine if you will 1306 00:52:04,530 --> 00:52:02,080 somebody else went down there or 1307 00:52:09,330 --> 00:52:04,540 somebody brought geo view down there and 1308 00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:09,340 and did 30 vertical points of imagery we 1309 00:52:14,910 --> 00:52:11,200 would find something already right 1310 00:52:17,340 --> 00:52:14,920 evidence does not lie people well Chris 1311 00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:17,350 moving away from dark files you have 1312 00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:19,210 another project coming up that is 1313 00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:22,000 completely different and that is in the 1314 00:52:25,890 --> 00:52:24,160 realm of cryptozoology and you said that 1315 00:52:28,110 --> 00:52:25,900 this was one of the first projects you 1316 00:52:31,050 --> 00:52:28,120 ever worked on and this is about our 1317 00:52:32,850 --> 00:52:31,060 hairy hominid friend Bigfoot I got to 1318 00:52:34,410 --> 00:52:32,860 hear about this man what what do what 1319 00:52:36,540 --> 00:52:34,420 can we expect next from you with in 1320 00:52:38,340 --> 00:52:36,550 terms of Bigfoot just kind of creepy 1321 00:52:40,650 --> 00:52:38,350 that was making all this noise like 1322 00:52:43,650 --> 00:52:40,660 trying to intimidate us and then we go 1323 00:52:45,390 --> 00:52:43,660 look for it and it goes in heights so 1324 00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:45,400 once the Sun went down it seemed like 1325 00:52:54,450 --> 00:52:50,290 the best thing to do was to the impact 1326 00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:54,460 it would have on the species to to kill 1327 00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:00,630 if this thing was coming after me I'm 1328 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:04,240 gonna put a ball in okay so we have this 1329 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:08,050 incredible source material material that 1330 00:53:11,130 --> 00:53:09,970 was put out in the world about this 1331 00:53:13,980 --> 00:53:11,140 particular subject 1332 00:53:16,109 --> 00:53:13,990 Bigfoot North American Sasquatch has 1333 00:53:17,460 --> 00:53:16,119 been in books you know and I've been 1334 00:53:19,650 --> 00:53:17,470 reading them since I was a kid so 1335 00:53:23,310 --> 00:53:19,660 there's some wonderful stuff in 1336 00:53:26,370 --> 00:53:23,320 literature and in books but not so much 1337 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:26,380 in TV and movies but it is a saturated 1338 00:53:30,990 --> 00:53:28,810 subject for television and movies I just 1339 00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:31,000 feel like it's never it's never been 1340 00:53:36,510 --> 00:53:33,730 translated correctly and so I am making 1341 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:36,520 a motion picture that portrays this 1342 00:53:40,980 --> 00:53:39,130 correctly that has a great perspective 1343 00:53:43,349 --> 00:53:40,990 and something may be a new unique 1344 00:53:45,630 --> 00:53:43,359 perspective on the whole thing and I'd 1345 00:53:48,359 --> 00:53:45,640 like to go back to some of the greatest 1346 00:53:52,380 --> 00:53:48,369 stories everything from certain Native 1347 00:53:55,980 --> 00:53:52,390 American tales to the phred backstory at 1348 00:53:58,620 --> 00:53:55,990 8:00 Canyon Mount st. Helens to the 1349 00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:58,630 Theodore Roosevelt Bauman story to the 1350 00:54:01,950 --> 00:54:00,880 Patterson Gimlin experience to all of 1351 00:54:03,810 --> 00:54:01,960 these things and I have a bunch of 1352 00:54:06,420 --> 00:54:03,820 others too that are lesser-known but I 1353 00:54:09,329 --> 00:54:06,430 think to me exhilarating stories and 1354 00:54:11,250 --> 00:54:09,339 adapt them as these kind of anthology 1355 00:54:13,050 --> 00:54:11,260 cinematic moments this would be a two 1356 00:54:15,210 --> 00:54:13,060 two and a half hour movie that would 1357 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:15,220 have ligaments of great narration I've 1358 00:54:20,190 --> 00:54:18,010 been talking to Tony Todd at the actor 1359 00:54:22,589 --> 00:54:20,200 Tony Todd who want him to narrate this 1360 00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:22,599 film and I hopefully he's going to he 1361 00:54:25,980 --> 00:54:24,400 almost narrated the dark files it's just 1362 00:54:27,780 --> 00:54:25,990 got to get everyone on the same boat and 1363 00:54:29,130 --> 00:54:27,790 I was really pushing for him and he's 1364 00:54:33,089 --> 00:54:29,140 such a great guy he's got such a great 1365 00:54:35,339 --> 00:54:33,099 voice so I I'd like him to narrate 1366 00:54:37,230 --> 00:54:35,349 Bigfoot and so there's this great 1367 00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:37,240 narration leading you through we begin 1368 00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:38,950 with you know the creation of the earth 1369 00:54:44,190 --> 00:54:41,200 something magnificent like that and then 1370 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:44,200 moving forward into species being 1371 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:45,970 created and this is a short period of 1372 00:54:50,609 --> 00:54:48,130 time but then throughout history now 1373 00:54:52,950 --> 00:54:50,619 this country has gone through many 1374 00:54:55,500 --> 00:54:52,960 changes over the years it was forged in 1375 00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:55,510 war and violence and genocide so imagine 1376 00:55:00,900 --> 00:54:58,000 if you will this species did exist that 1377 00:55:03,780 --> 00:55:00,910 there's something between animal and man 1378 00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:03,790 and they're they're not enormous and 1379 00:55:08,099 --> 00:55:05,440 number you know they don't have this 1380 00:55:09,420 --> 00:55:08,109 breeding population like deer or bear 1381 00:55:11,070 --> 00:55:09,430 might have they're a little more 1382 00:55:11,579 --> 00:55:11,080 conscious of the fact that they need to 1383 00:55:14,459 --> 00:55:11,589 keep the 1384 00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:14,469 population down and so they see us 1385 00:55:18,059 --> 00:55:16,569 through forests and they look out at the 1386 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:18,069 Civil War and they look out at the 1387 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:19,690 Industrial Revolution and they see these 1388 00:55:22,799 --> 00:55:21,130 things and they want nothing to do with 1389 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:22,809 us so they retreat become extremely 1390 00:55:26,279 --> 00:55:24,729 elusive and that's kind of the 1391 00:55:28,349 --> 00:55:26,289 perspective of the story it's like this 1392 00:55:30,959 --> 00:55:28,359 historical timeline of the best Bigfoot 1393 00:55:33,299 --> 00:55:30,969 stories told through this partially 1394 00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:33,309 documentary type format that's linking 1395 00:55:36,930 --> 00:55:35,049 it together if that makes any sense 1396 00:55:39,079 --> 00:55:36,940 absolutely that's that's really 1397 00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:39,089 interesting you never get like a 1398 00:55:44,969 --> 00:55:41,890 historical lens of Bigfoot throughout 1399 00:55:47,009 --> 00:55:44,979 the ages and yeah I think that's that's 1400 00:55:49,259 --> 00:55:47,019 an interesting angle to take in terms of 1401 00:55:52,170 --> 00:55:49,269 why these creatures wouldn't want to 1402 00:55:54,029 --> 00:55:52,180 interact with us or why even some alien 1403 00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:54,039 species would want to come down the hair 1404 00:55:59,940 --> 00:55:57,249 after we explode an atomic bomb you know 1405 00:56:02,069 --> 00:55:59,950 I could see it on a grand scale back 1406 00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:02,079 here on earth - no wonder we never found 1407 00:56:05,700 --> 00:56:04,210 a Bigfoot body they there's only 1408 00:56:08,249 --> 00:56:05,710 probably a couple of them out there 1409 00:56:11,339 --> 00:56:08,259 again Who am I I'm no cryptozoologist 1410 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:11,349 but that sounds really interesting so 1411 00:56:16,380 --> 00:56:14,410 are we in production for this yet or is 1412 00:56:18,450 --> 00:56:16,390 this still in development well I started 1413 00:56:20,789 --> 00:56:18,460 off as a very independent picture so I 1414 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:20,799 went out to Utah and I went out to 1415 00:56:25,049 --> 00:56:23,170 Colorado and I went out to northern 1416 00:56:26,849 --> 00:56:25,059 Michigan and even places in Florida 1417 00:56:28,499 --> 00:56:26,859 where people said they saw similar 1418 00:56:31,289 --> 00:56:28,509 creatures and I have a lot of footage 1419 00:56:33,779 --> 00:56:31,299 but since the dark Files has been 1420 00:56:35,969 --> 00:56:33,789 established and aired I have other 1421 00:56:37,799 --> 00:56:35,979 people that are willing to perhaps 1422 00:56:40,319 --> 00:56:37,809 participate and I don't have to make 1423 00:56:42,539 --> 00:56:40,329 Bigfoot is such a large movie the script 1424 00:56:44,940 --> 00:56:42,549 is such a big you know imaginative 1425 00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:44,950 vision of the whole thing that I'm gonna 1426 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:47,200 need a little bit of help with this so I 1427 00:56:50,609 --> 00:56:49,210 was patiently waiting for the dark files 1428 00:56:53,549 --> 00:56:50,619 to be released to have other 1429 00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:53,559 opportunities to you know make do this 1430 00:56:58,200 --> 00:56:55,930 justice do my script justice and and and 1431 00:56:59,999 --> 00:56:58,210 not because really with montauk I did 1432 00:57:01,259 --> 00:57:00,009 everything myself I had a couple of 1433 00:57:03,989 --> 00:57:01,269 helping hands here and there but really 1434 00:57:05,700 --> 00:57:03,999 that's all and it was difficult very 1435 00:57:07,589 --> 00:57:05,710 difficult it's gonna be difficult anyway 1436 00:57:08,999 --> 00:57:07,599 but I would much rather have a few hands 1437 00:57:11,009 --> 00:57:09,009 and I think now I'm coming into that 1438 00:57:13,380 --> 00:57:11,019 opportunity so I kind of patiently put 1439 00:57:15,359 --> 00:57:13,390 Bigfoot on just unpause while we made 1440 00:57:17,519 --> 00:57:15,369 the dark files and now that that's 1441 00:57:20,039 --> 00:57:17,529 released and we're moving into the 1442 00:57:21,690 --> 00:57:20,049 series I'm hoping to have better 1443 00:57:24,830 --> 00:57:21,700 opportunities with Bigfoot and it looks 1444 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:24,840 like I will to create that next year 1445 00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:26,850 yeah take a moment to breathe man and 1446 00:57:32,780 --> 00:57:30,330 then we want you back to work thank you 1447 00:57:35,780 --> 00:57:32,790 well where where can we find Montauk 1448 00:57:38,690 --> 00:57:35,790 chronicles and dark files Chris well you 1449 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:38,700 can go to Montauk chronicles calm and 1450 00:57:42,980 --> 00:57:40,890 Montauk chronicles is available in all 1451 00:57:44,660 --> 00:57:42,990 formats you have DVD and blu-ray which 1452 00:57:46,670 --> 00:57:44,670 have some great extras on it making of 1453 00:57:48,860 --> 00:57:46,680 documentaries full base exploration 1454 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:48,870 extended interviews or if you just want 1455 00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:50,970 to rent it or purchase the digital copy 1456 00:57:54,620 --> 00:57:52,770 there's a link on my website as well to 1457 00:57:57,530 --> 00:57:54,630 do that and for the dark files you go to 1458 00:58:00,650 --> 00:57:57,540 history channel calm or history calm and 1459 00:58:02,450 --> 00:58:00,660 search the dark files and if I guess you 1460 00:58:04,190 --> 00:58:02,460 just type in your cable provider and 1461 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:04,200 you'll be able to watch it now if you 1462 00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:07,530 want to um or look for a rebroadcast but 1463 00:58:11,210 --> 00:58:09,090 I think it'd be much easier to find it 1464 00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:11,220 online yeah it's very easy did it myself 1465 00:58:16,670 --> 00:58:15,090 watched it three times in a row didn't 1466 00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:16,680 sleep that night but uh that's another 1467 00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:17,370 story 1468 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:20,010 well Chris you you've shed light on a 1469 00:58:24,650 --> 00:58:23,130 very dark and deeply disturbing mystery 1470 00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:24,660 and I can only imagine it's going to 1471 00:58:28,790 --> 00:58:26,850 become deeper every step you take an 1472 00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:28,800 investigating camp hero the Montauk 1473 00:58:33,140 --> 00:58:31,440 Project so well I don't envy that path I 1474 00:58:35,540 --> 00:58:33,150 certainly respect it and I highly 1475 00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:35,550 respect the work you do so thank you for 1476 00:58:38,810 --> 00:58:36,720 joining me on somewhere in the skies 1477 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:38,820 today thank you so much right thank you 1478 00:58:42,530 --> 00:58:40,410 alright that is it for this week's 1479 00:58:46,130 --> 00:58:42,540 episode be sure to check out the Montauk 1480 00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:46,140 chronicles at mtk Chronicles comm and 1481 00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,090 the dark files is now available on the 1482 00:58:51,980 --> 00:58:50,640 History Channel at history.com if you 1483 00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:51,990 haven't already please consider 1484 00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:54,240 subscribing rating and reviewing 1485 00:58:57,980 --> 00:58:56,010 somewhere in the skies on itunes 1486 00:58:59,780 --> 00:58:57,990 recently I've learned that the only way 1487 00:59:02,210 --> 00:58:59,790 the show can move up in the rankings is 1488 00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:02,220 not by downloads or even ratings and 1489 00:59:06,830 --> 00:59:04,290 reviews it's actually the number of 1490 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:06,840 subscribers to the podcast so please 1491 00:59:11,690 --> 00:59:09,330 consider subscribing today if you have 1492 00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:11,700 any guests or topic suggestions or want 1493 00:59:15,470 --> 00:59:13,440 to share a story or experience with me 1494 00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:15,480 you can reach me through the contact tab 1495 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:17,520 on the website somewhere in the skies 1496 00:59:22,910 --> 00:59:20,250 calm we're also on Twitter at somewhere 1497 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:22,920 skies we're now on Instagram as well at 1498 00:59:27,470 --> 00:59:25,770 somewhere skies pod and last but not 1499 00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:27,480 least to become a patron on patreon 1500 00:59:32,690 --> 00:59:30,930 visit patreon.com backslash somewhere 1501 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:32,700 skies so I thought it would be cool to 1502 00:59:36,990 --> 00:59:34,770 end the show with a song from the 1503 00:59:39,330 --> 00:59:37,000 original Montauk Chronicle 1504 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:39,340 soundtrack so I leave you with a song 1505 00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:42,130 titled beginning the adventure composed 1506 00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:43,810 by Krystal Cordero 1507 00:59:47,310 --> 00:59:45,730 I will see you here next Monday and 1508 00:59:50,130 --> 00:59:47,320 remember keep your feet on the ground 1509 00:59:51,140 --> 00:59:50,140 but never stop searching somewhere in 1510 01:01:01,400 --> 00:59:51,150 the skies 1511 01:01:04,559 --> 01:01:01,410 [Music] 1512 01:01:07,289 --> 01:01:04,569 hi I'm Jeremy one of the hosts of Sick 1513 01:01:10,380 --> 01:01:07,299 Boy podcast a weekly podcast where we 1514 01:01:14,609 --> 01:01:10,390 are dying with laughter literally I am 1515 01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:14,619 dying and we find that hilarious our 1516 01:01:18,450 --> 01:01:16,569 goal is to help people understand that 1517 01:01:20,789 --> 01:01:18,460 sometimes the best way to deal with the 1518 01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:20,799 challenges of life is simply to laugh 1519 01:01:26,279 --> 01:01:24,130 join Brian Taylor and myself weekly as 1520 01:01:28,349 --> 01:01:26,289 we speak with guests who are sick and 1521 01:01:29,309 --> 01:01:28,359 search for humor in an otherwise dark 1522 01:01:31,799 --> 01:01:29,319 situation 1523 01:01:34,499 --> 01:01:31,809 tune in on Apple podcasts be sure to 1524 01:01:36,029 --> 01:01:34,509 subscribe rate and review and hey while 1525 01:01:37,469 --> 01:01:36,039 you're at it check us out on Instagram 1526 01:01:40,109 --> 01:01:37,479 Facebook and Twitter 1527 01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:40,119 from the antic a podcast network sick